41. Healing Our Grief: How To Find Meaning In Loss

What if you could see the grief you feel as the evidence of your incredible capacity to love?

What if the deep feelings of loss remind you of how precious your life and everyone in it really is?

What if the pain you feel could be alchemized into an even greater ability to be present,

To transform and to live fully?

So I think it's those three things and I think in a nutshell it is the purpose of our existence.

Welcome to Spiritually Hungry Podcast episode 41.

We are,

Well I am going to do my best to get through this episode without too many tears.

So we were planning on coming out to Los Angeles this week and when the day before we came,

Monica's father who I know Monica shared in many of our podcasts before,

Had all kinds of issues and he was in the ICU and well you know it's a very difficult situation right now.

So deep in the middle of a process.

And I have to say I told Monica we should cancel the podcast this week and Monica's like,

No we have to do it,

So I applaud Monica for caring about our listeners even during this very challenging and difficult time.

And I hope that this will be,

I'm assuming a shorter episode than usual,

But I do hope that in what we share today our listeners find some light wisdom and you know kabbalistically we always teach that one of the ways to draw light and support is to share even in the most challenging times.

So once again I both support and applaud Monica for attempting to record a podcast while she's going through a very difficult time with her father.

I mean that's the thing out of all the,

I mean I haven't done very much this week in terms of,

I'm not feeling motivated to you know I just slot a lot,

But I just felt like doing this,

Exactly that just to get out of my,

To bring light into a dark situation.

And also,

So basically we were talking about grief and I think with this year with COVID I know so many have experienced such great loss,

I think more at one time than perhaps we've ever seen.

And there's this quote it says,

For what is grief if not love persevering,

It's one division.

And I think that that has become a cultural touchstone because again so many have been grappling with loss.

So I kind of wrote some things because I'm going to be emotional,

But as somebody who writes and teaches about relationships I get to witness the power and beauty of love in all its forms.

And I've experienced profound love in my life.

I counsel it,

I help people find,

Nurture and repair it.

And it's the energy that makes us who we are and who we want to be.

But the only hazard of that comes as a result of loving as deeply and as fully as we're able to.

Because then it's the pain that arrives with loss.

And this pain is known as grief.

And you know there's no feeling quite as overwhelming as grief.

In fact I think that we're all familiar with the different stages.

So I'm going to go through those quickly to take me out of my feelings.

So they're in phases and I've certainly experienced this.

The first is denial.

Right,

It's when you first learn of the loss.

Or even,

You know,

I always say that I started grieving my father seven years ago when he was diagnosed as having Alzheimer's dementia.

And so for me it's interesting this grief has,

You know,

Gone on for a very long time in small doses.

And even though I learned to live in a way with him where I could just enjoy our time together and appreciate him,

I realized this week that because I haven't created any new memories with him in seven years that you almost start forgetting some of the other ones because you haven't experienced this person for so long.

It's interesting our kids,

Especially our older kids,

You know,

Really didn't know your father before he was,

Don't have any strong memories with him.

And I think Mira,

My older daughter,

Was saying that,

You know,

She doesn't really remember your dad before.

But it's interesting,

You know,

I thought about this,

You know,

I think some of our listeners might know my father who left this physical world almost seven years,

Almost eight years ago.

He had a stroke nearly 10 years before that.

And I remember,

Again,

And it's,

You know,

These are processes,

But I remember thinking that on some level having had time,

I know for myself having had time,

Not that it makes it easy because it's never going to be easy,

But somehow it prepares you a little bit more than somebody who leaves this world in a sudden way.

I wonder if that's.

.

.

I think that's true.

And I think that that's where I was before we got here.

And because he,

On top of already having had those ailments,

He got even sicker in this past weekend in very like sad ways,

I feel like I'm losing him all over again on another level because he looks to me like he's in pain.

So it's just,

It's bringing up,

I think,

Things that I dealt with already seven years ago.

And that's the thing.

That's why I want to talk about grief because it comes out of nowhere almost,

Right?

So denial is first,

Right?

You might think,

Is this really happening?

You feel shocked,

You feel numb.

And really it's a defense mechanism.

And there's anger as reality sets in,

You're faced with the pain of your loss.

You may feel frustrated and helpless.

So this eventually does turn into anger.

And we get angry at all kinds of things,

Right?

Like why did this happen?

It's not fair.

We go into the question of,

Why do good people suffer?

Why did God do this?

And then we can talk about that if you want to go down that rabbit hole,

But that's a place often people go to.

And then there's bargaining.

I remember I did this when we got Josh's diagnosis at first,

Like,

Oh,

I'll do anything if.

Right.

If it could just be a different thing,

This is not a real result that the doctor has given us of the blood test.

So,

You know,

Strike a deal with a higher power.

And then there is depression.

That's the sadness that sets in as you finally understand loss and its effect in your life.

And then there's finally acceptance,

Which is the final stage of grief,

Knowing that it cannot be changed.

But I do,

And I will inspire you listeners,

I promise.

By the way,

I just want to point out,

I'm sure our listeners feel this as well.

I think often,

And again,

I know that there will be also inspiration and there's not just the sharing of the pain that you're going through,

But the reality is that often,

Because so many people all over the world are going through pain,

Have gone through pain,

And unfortunately will go through pain,

That I think hearing other people's pain in some way,

I don't want to say alleviates,

But brings some support to the rest of the people who are going through pain or grief.

Well,

It's also interesting to me that,

You know,

I lost my teacher,

Your father.

Again,

You know,

He had a stroke and then when he passed,

How many years has it been now?

It's been about eight years,

Seven,

Close to eight years.

And then your mother,

Also my teacher,

Eight months now.

Eight months ago.

And especially Karen's passing,

I think made me understand death in a different way,

In a continuously quite powerful way.

And I really saw it as part of the cycle of life.

I mean,

Of course we always know that.

And I think that's the thing here.

You know,

When a person dies kind of on their terms in a way,

And some people have beautiful deaths,

Actually.

I was speaking to a healer yesterday and her mother passed that way,

Surrounded by her children.

Really there is a way to leave the world almost in the way that you came into it,

Right?

And I think it's interesting,

I think one of the inspirations for me to live a life that is filled with wisdom and spirituality and living in that way is because we know where the story ends.

And really,

Like you said,

I think that both for the person going through the process and for those around them,

And I've seen it all,

Right?

I've seen many,

You know,

Unfortunately we have the opportunity because,

You know,

We have many students that we've gone through many moments of grief with them and you have also gone through our personal moments.

And I do believe,

And I've seen,

Again,

It's not I believe,

That having invested a life in wisdom,

In living a spiritual life,

It makes both of those more elevated.

Like you said with my mother,

I have to say again,

I have never experienced moments that are final in that way,

In a physical level,

As beautiful,

As powerful.

I know I shared this in a previous podcast,

That for me,

That moment when my mother's soul left her body was one of the,

I use the word,

It's the only word that sort of comes close to what I was experiencing,

One of the holiest moments that I've ever experienced in my life.

And having been with her throughout that process of her illness and elevating from this world,

It was a real testament to who she was,

Is,

And what her soul's work in this world was.

And how she lived.

Yes.

And I have to say as well,

For us,

Family and friends and students,

I saw the difference because those moments,

It does not maybe make it less painful,

But it certainly makes it more meaningful.

And while there are great moments of sadness and feelings of loss,

It's in the framework that gives it meaning.

And important ways actually elevate us.

And it's interesting you mentioned that because for me,

Having experienced it with my mother,

Some people I think when a close relative passes,

It of course reminds us of our own mortality,

But also can make a person even more fearful,

Certainly when a person is there in the room.

And I have to say for me,

Both watching my mother go through that process and being there in the final moments actually removed levels of fear of death for me.

It's interesting.

Honestly,

I was going to say that before you said that.

I've always been a little afraid of death,

Especially before I found Kapala.

I mean,

I was terrified of death,

Right?

And it can almost make you not even want to live too much or love too strongly because that fear of tremendous loss,

Right?

But I feel like with Karen,

It almost,

Her death felt elevated.

And I felt like she carried me through it.

Like she was showing me it's okay.

You know,

I'm in a,

It's where I need to be now.

The process I'm in right now though is I don't know how I'll feel after he passes.

I've told you this,

That my grief for my father is quite confusing because on one level,

I'm almost excited for him,

For his soul to be free of his body.

That's held him back for so many years now.

His mind,

His body has betrayed him.

So I want his soul to take flight and really be free.

And then I go through seeing him still in the physical body.

Now that's where the pain is,

Right?

And that brings up a lot,

But.

.

.

But if I can say,

And again,

The words,

His body betrayed him,

Right?

Because the understanding is that our soul goes through processes.

I understand.

I just want to share for our listeners,

Right?

And we can understand a lot.

We can understand everything.

And again,

It's different when you're watching somebody you love go through it.

You know,

Even things that we understand are much more difficult to access or even to experience.

And by the way,

It's probably the healthier thing to experience the pain and those thoughts.

But there's no question.

I think his experience might be better than my experience of seeing him right now.

Right.

And I know that might sound weird,

But I'm not even sure if his soul is in his body all the time,

If he's going in and out or he's already starting to go to the upper worlds.

I think he is preparing for death.

I understand that.

So I wonder,

You know,

If that's when our own mortality,

As we were saying earlier,

Comes in,

Like watching this witnessing,

Oh my God,

You know,

Because from where we are in our physical body today in a healthy body,

That is a terrifying thing to see.

I'm not sure it's terrifying for my father.

And to some extent,

And I think this is part of developing spiritually where you either understand and eventually even really see that all the processes that a soul goes through in the body in some ways that we can or cannot understand fully help the soul elevate so that if we had the real vision,

We would actually be excited even though what we see in this physical world is a body that is going through a very difficult and maybe painful process.

But you know that it's also in some ways elevating.

I mean,

You know,

I always,

And this is saying the pain a person goes through before death,

Even if it's a long lasting one or a short one,

Is there to help the person elevate quicker because that pain purpose is kind of like a cleansing.

It's interesting because again,

I think I mean,

You might have had even had this conversation where you know,

My mother lived a life that was almost 100% of giving to other people,

But every,

But you know,

Nobody's perfect.

Right.

So in my mind,

And even though she didn't really experience that much pain,

Which is kind of crazy,

The process she was going through,

She was almost happy all the time throughout it.

But my view on it was that any pain that was experienced and that process,

Which must have been a difficult process,

Even though she was smiling through most of it,

Helped her soul cleanse of anything that needed to be cleansed.

And in that way,

It was a very necessary and positive process for her soul to go through.

Because if not,

Then the cleansing perhaps happens after the passing for her soul.

Right.

You know,

It's interesting.

I've been reading The Soul's Journey.

And it's not a coincidence that the last two episodes were about reincarnation.

So I started to really immerse myself in this.

And then even though after the podcast had passed,

I was like,

Okay,

I really need this content now,

You know.

And the doctor,

You know,

He had a lot of different clients.

He did past life regression.

He did hypnotherapy with them.

And he said that the ones who had a violent death,

Like as soon as the body experienced extreme pain,

The soul left the body right away.

So that it wasn't,

It didn't actually connect to that in that way.

Right.

It was more just the body.

I thought that was really interesting.

There's a story which is,

Again,

An extreme story.

But I find a lot of inspiration from it.

I hope it doesn't sound strange.

But one of the greatest souls that ever came down into this world.

Rabbi Akiva.

His name was Rabbi Akiva.

And he was a tremendously elevated soul.

He had thousands and thousands of students.

He lived his life in the extreme,

In the most positive way.

But he lived 2,

000 years ago,

Over 2,

000 years ago,

In what is now Israel.

And the Romans had decreed that you were not allowed to gather.

They were afraid of rebellion and so on.

So they were not allowed to gather and teach students.

He of course would not stop and he continued teaching.

And the Romans were out to get him and kill him.

They caught him.

And his death was a terrible death.

The Romans took metal combs and literally combed off his skin until eventually from so much blood loss,

He died.

And while this was happening,

One of his.

.

.

Left that body almost.

Well,

As this was happening,

The story goes,

One of the students came up to him and said,

How could this be happening to you?

Your entire life was all about giving and sharing and teaching.

It was nothing about yourself.

You were the most elevated.

And we know as a matter of fact that his soul,

Even Moses,

When he saw the soul of Rabbi Akiva,

He said to the Creator,

This is the person who should be in the Bible.

This is the person who should be revealing the Torah,

The wisdom at Mount Sinai.

But Rabbi Akiva's response to his students,

When the students said,

How can this be happening?

His teacher said,

My entire life I've been waiting for this moment.

And again,

It's an extreme example.

But the idea is that he got to such an elevated spiritual state where what for other people would have been excruciating physical pain as his soul was departing,

He was embracing at least if not more that experience.

So for me,

And again,

Going back to what is it for us to learn,

For me,

Every person knows what happens at the end.

And there's no question that having spent more time gaining wisdom,

Understanding,

And elevating spiritually makes those moments,

Again,

Maybe we can't embrace them as much as Rabbi Akiva or by the way,

Even as much as my brother,

I have to say,

Like I said,

And it's hard to express this without our listeners having been there.

But for me,

It was such a testament to the power of living a spiritual life that you can get to the most,

To what in other people's minds is the most terrible moments and still be joyful about them,

Which is kind of crazy.

But I find great inspiration from that.

I do too.

I do want to take this slightly different direction in that yesterday,

Actually meant,

Like I said,

I saw a healer,

But she works with actually the vagus nerve,

Which holds on to trauma.

And it remembers those things.

And it's a real release.

And when I had booked this appointment,

Like I always try to see her when I come to LA,

I didn't realize how much I'd actually need it.

And I really wanted to connect to my father's life.

I wanted to stop thinking about the loss,

Not just of him,

But about how he must feel about the loss of his life.

Right.

I realized at the end of the session,

I was really looking at him and I was surprised because I don't view life this way as a victim,

That he's suffering.

He suffered all these years.

And then I was able to,

By the end of it,

See him as a really strong person for being able to endure,

For him to be able to endure this disease as long as he has,

And even the other things that he's had this weekend.

And so in seeing him in his strength,

I was able to remember like the memories I had forgotten was,

Like I said,

For seven years,

I hadn't been creating new ones.

And I remember him and I felt like I was floating.

Like I just saw him smiling the whole time.

I remembered only happy things the times he laughed and even when he was silly.

And mostly I remember how kind he was and how much he respected me always.

I forgot about all of that.

He always respected me as a person,

Especially after I got married.

He'd always say to me,

I'm so proud of you.

You've always made me so proud.

So I feel like my father can hear me and he knows how I feel and I know how he feels.

So that's helped me with this grief.

And a lot of people write to me about parents who have Alzheimer's and that they're angry and they haven't let go of past hurt and now they can't talk to the person anymore.

And so I give them this advice that they're still your parent and celebrate the times that you were together.

Like you have to learn to cycle and shift,

Sift through that whole process.

But I do think this is really helpful as well.

We can actually redirect our grief.

So the power of our grief is almost always in direct relation to how profoundly we've loved,

Right?

That's what makes it so incredibly painful.

So if we have tremendous gratitude and appreciation for even having had these people in our lives,

For parts of our lives in the first place,

Then you are able,

I think eventually to transform that grief into feeling blessed or having had that experience with them.

Right?

Because now for going back to look at the cycle of life and why there is death and why all these things happen,

You have to be able to look at the totality of any relationship you've had with any person.

And I really was able to do that yesterday.

So I think that for our listeners,

These are the questions I asked myself and this is what I would do and what I'm suggesting people to do.

What if you could see the grief you feel as the evidence of your incredible capacity to love?

What if the deep feelings of loss remind you of how precious your life and everyone in it really is?

Right?

Because that's the other thing that happens very quickly as soon as loss comes into the picture.

So suddenly you can see all the beauty and gifts that are in your life.

And by the way,

You also realize the people who you are in so much there for you.

And stop giving them the energy.

Yeah.

And the third is what if the pain you feel could be alchemized into an even greater ability to be present,

To transform and to live fully?

So I think it's those three things.

And I think in a nutshell,

That is the purpose of our existence.

Beautiful.

So of course it's not meant to diminish the weight of grief,

But I think it's going to help those who are grieving.

It's interesting when you speak about,

And you shared this with me yesterday after seeing that healer,

That for me I realized that,

And I'm sure it's different.

I think,

Again,

Going back to why living a life,

I would say a spiritual life,

A purposeful life is so important.

Because for the almost 10 years that my father was in this world after having the stroke,

You know,

We.

.

.

I don't want to say you don't forget,

Right?

But that's your experience right then is a person in a different state than the person that you knew.

And then when he left this physical world,

Suddenly it's as if I totally.

.

.

And we had this conversation today.

You totally forget about all those challenging times in those 10 years.

And you,

For me at least,

All you remember is really the beautiful times that you had.

And the same thing with my mother.

Of course,

No father and no mother and son's relationship is perfect.

And of course,

There are challenging times and she personally had challenging times.

But as I look back,

The only memories I can really hold on to and have strongly in my mind are the most powerful ones,

The beautiful ones,

The ones that were filled with love.

And I think whether a person's in the process of grieving or even after,

I think it's an important question,

Both an important question to ask and also an important work to do,

Which is,

You know,

We've met and you've mentioned,

We meet people who having lost somebody,

You know,

Can only remember the bad things,

Right?

Or at least remember a lot more of the bad things.

I think there's something wrong,

Again,

Except in the extreme examples where somebody really was raised by a monster,

Right?

But the reality is most people,

You know,

And we had this conversation today,

You know,

Everybody is trying to do their best,

Right?

And you have a father or a mother who might not have been perfect.

But I do think there's something wrong if you're not able to,

After having lost them in this physical world,

To look back only with love and appreciation.

Let go of the expectations of what you had and expected them to be and see them for who they were.

I think that when grief arrives,

We have two choices to make.

We can become defined by our grief and all the emotions that it inspires like anger and fear,

Or we can grow from it.

Really those are the two choices to eventually get to because we can allow loss to change us.

And I found this really inspiring.

There was an interview with Mo Godot.

He's a chief business officer at Google and the author of the book Solve for Happy.

And there's a two minute video where he's introducing this and he talks about the algorithm for happiness.

He describes happiness as being less about what life gives us and more about how we feel about what life gives us.

This hypothesis was put into test in a monumental way when his own life was changed because his 21 year old son died suddenly in what should have been a routine operation.

And through his work around happiness,

It was ultimately born of his grief.

In the video,

He describes being hit with one question.

What can I do now to bring him back?

He goes on to say that nothing I could have ever done,

Including locking myself in a room and crying for the rest of my life,

Could bring him back.

He realized that he had two choices to be defined by his grief or to create a new set point.

If he could get his son back,

He would have had a boundless desire to create a life of joy and opportunity for him.

Since he can't,

He made a vow to do that for the rest of his family,

What he had wished he could have done for his son.

He set an intention to make each day a little bit better,

Easier and more joyful for the rest of his life.

Grief may say my life is over,

But it's up to us whether we let it come true or not.

It's up to us how we decide to feel about loss.

It's up to us to decide how we ultimately want to experience our grief.

And of course,

Again,

It's a process,

But I thought that was really inspiring.

Beautiful.

It's interesting,

You know,

As you were reading,

I was looking at your T-shirt.

It says love will rise above all.

And then the thought that came to mind,

I'm sharing,

So it was like,

Okay,

So what does that mean about the love that you and your father had?

And then,

But really we've spoken about this before,

And I think this is again,

Something that I try to live every day of my life with the knowledge that that love exists,

Right?

That love that you had is not love that you had,

Is love that you have.

I feel him as if he's sitting right here across from me.

I mean,

And that was the thing yesterday with the memories that came like,

You know,

I am,

When I think about it,

I am experiencing in this moment.

I am.

It's that he's still in the middle of this process that makes it difficult.

I just had a thought to what you posited earlier about why people,

Even after somebody's gone,

They just remember the bad stuff.

I think that because letting go is the real end,

People hold on even to the negative to keep them somehow still alive in their lives.

But I would say,

Of course,

There's a better way to do that.

You know,

It's,

But they want something from them.

That's the thing they want.

Maybe an apology or they want to have a new chapter.

If you realize letting go,

Maybe the real end to whatever your experience was,

I think it's the real beginning to being able to fully realize who they,

Who they were without the expectation of what you thought you should have gotten.

And again,

Especially since again,

Physics tells us today,

Right?

We've spoken about this,

That,

That the past doesn't really disappear and the future isn't necessarily not here.

So if you understand that they are here,

Their love,

Their wisdom,

Their light is here.

And when,

When you think about that,

And I was,

I actually heard an interview a few months ago there,

Somebody was saying,

You know,

In my mind,

My father's still here.

And you know what?

I believe science says that that's true as well.

But even if it's a lie,

It makes us feel better,

Right?

To know that.

And you can,

You can choose,

Right?

That person can choose to live in loss where the person is not here at all.

Their energy isn't even here or at least to try attempt to live in a place where no,

Their love,

Their light,

Their wisdom is actually still here with me.

Abigail,

Our youngest,

She,

She doesn't have any,

I mean,

She,

She'd never met him before when he was healthy fully.

And you know,

She just experienced the loss of your mother.

And so she,

She has,

I think a healthier understanding actually of death and most seven year olds.

So I was explaining to her that,

You know,

He,

He hasn't been well for quite some time.

And she said,

Oh,

But even when I met him and I said,

Yes,

You know,

He was very different when I was younger,

Even before you were born.

And she said,

Well,

When his soul goes up to heaven,

Then will he be your full dad again?

And will you experience him like you did when you were a child before you had children before you got married?

And I just thought that was such a beautiful thing to offer.

But yeah,

I do actually believe that.

And I think I already am experiencing him that way.

And in closing,

I just want to share a song that has actually,

It's just like,

It's by James Blunt,

It's called Monsters.

And his father also has some sort of similar situation.

And he wrote this and it just speaks completely to me.

I'm not going to read the whole,

All the lyrics as it's rather long,

But I do suggest you check it out,

Especially if you if you are experiencing this kind of grief.

So he says,

Before they turn off all the lights,

I won't read you your wrongs or your rights.

The time has gone.

I'll tell you good night,

Close the door.

Tell you I love you once more.

The time has gone.

So here it is.

I'm not your son.

You're not my father.

We're just two grown men saying goodbye.

No need to forgive.

No need to forget.

I know your mistakes and you know mine.

And while you're sleeping,

I'll try to make you proud.

So daddy,

Won't you just close your eyes?

Don't be afraid.

It's my turn to chase the monsters away.

It goes on,

But I think that sums it up.

So thank you,

Monica,

For recording a podcast for our listeners even during this difficult time.

And I'm sure that our listeners will gain inspiration and support from what you've shared today.

And thank you to all of our listeners for listening and for sharing with us.

And we hope to be able to share with you again next week.

And we hope that you receive from this podcast as much as I received from it this time.

Thank you,

Monica.

Thank you.

Bye.