Nisargadatta's I Am That Session 5-The Living Present Part 2

Questioner,

We shall repeat the question we began with.

Between life's source and life's expression,

Which is the body,

There is the mind,

And its ever-changeful states.

The stream of mental states is endless,

Meaningless,

And painful.

Pain is the constant factor.

What we call pain is the constant factor.

What we call pain is the constant factor.

What we call pain is the constant factor.

What we call pain is the constant factor.

What we call pain is the constant factor.

What we call pain is the constant factor.

What we call pain is the constant factor.

What we call pain is the constant factor.

What we call pain is the constant factor.

What we call pain is the constant factor.

What we call pain is the constant factor.

What we call pain is the constant factor.

What we call pain is the constant factor.

What we call pain is the constant factor.

What we call pain is the constant factor.

What we call pain is the constant factor.

What we call pain is the constant factor.

What we call pain is the constant factor.

What we call pleasure is but a gap,

An interval between two painful states.

Desire and fear are the woven fabric of living,

And both are made of pain.

Our question is,

Can there be a happy mind?

Maharaj,

Desire is the memory of pleasure,

And fear is the memory of pain.

But make the mind restless.

Moments of pleasure are merely gaps in the stream of pain.

How can the mind be happy?

Questioner,

That is true when we desire pleasure or expect pain.

But there are moments of unexpected,

Unanticipated joy.

Pure joy,

Uncontaminated by desire,

Unsought,

Undeserved,

God-given.

Maharaj,

Still,

Joy is joy only against the background of pain.

Questioner,

Is pain a cosmic fact or purely mental?

Maharaj,

The universe is complete.

Where there is completeness,

Where nothing lacks,

What can get pain?

Questioner,

The universe may be complete as a whole,

But incomplete in details.

Maharaj,

A part of the whole seen in relation to the whole is also complete.

Only when seen in isolation,

It becomes deficient and thus a seed of pain.

What makes for isolation?

Questioner,

Limitations of the mind of course.

The mind cannot see the whole for the part.

Maharaj,

Good enough.

The mind by its very nature divides and opposes.

Can there be some other mind which unites and harmonizes,

Which sees the whole in the part and the part as totally related to the whole?

Questioner,

Other mind,

Where does one look for it?

Maharaj,

In going beyond the limiting,

Dividing and opposing mind,

In ending the mental process as we know it,

When this comes to an end,

Then that mind is born.

Questioner,

In that mind,

The problems of joy and sorrow exist no longer?

Maharaj,

No,

As we know them,

As desirable or repugnant,

It becomes rather a question of love-seeking expression and meeting with obstacles.

The inclusive mind is love in action,

Battling against circumstances,

Initially frustrated,

Ultimately victorious.

Questioner,

Between the spirit and the body,

Is it love that provides the bridge?

Maharaj,

What else?

Mind creates the absence,

The heart causes it.

Okay.

So the questioner now goes back to his original question.

You remember?

What was his original question?

Between the body and the sense of being,

There is the mind that creates all the misery.

You remember that question?

This is the same question again.

We shall repeat the question we began with.

Between life's source,

Life's source is the sense of being,

The sense of I am,

And life's expression,

Life's expression is this physical body.

So between life's source and life's expression,

There is the mind and its ever changeful states.

The stream of mental states is endless,

Meaningless and painful.

Pain is the constant factor.

What we call pleasure is but a gap,

An interval between two painful states.

Desire and fear are the wet and warp of living and both are made of pain.

Our question is,

Can there be a happy mind?

What is he looking for?

He is looking for the mind which is in between the body and the sense of being.

He is looking for that mind to be happy.

Yes?

Very clear?

Because he sees that mind lost in desire and fear and desire and fear both bring pain.

Lot of people understand how fear brings pain,

Lot of people don't understand how desire brings pain.

How does desire bring pain?

Oh,

I want money,

It should make me happy.

You run,

Run,

Run,

Run,

Run,

Run,

Run after that money.

In that running,

Have you noticed how restless you are?

How agitated you are?

How the mind is cooking up a story,

I have to do this,

I have to do that,

I have to do that.

You are not at peace.

Are you seeing this?

Desire is constant feverishness in the mind.

It doesn't matter what the object is.

I just gave you the example of money,

But it doesn't matter what the object is.

Even if you have a spiritual desire,

I want enlightenment,

I want enlightenment,

I want enlightenment,

I want enlightenment,

You feverishness in the mind.

Yeah,

That is painful.

I give you both the vices of the material world and the spiritual world.

You see where you are,

You might be somewhere in the middle of the spectrum,

Whatever the object is,

It's not the object that is the problem,

The problem is the feverishness in my mind,

The constant running race that I am on,

That marathon inside that I am playing,

Alone with myself only,

There are not even other competitors inside.

With myself only I am doing this drama.

Yes,

That is the cause of pain.

So desire leads to pain and fear also is nothing but pain.

Very clear?

Both are pain.

So the question is can there be a happy mind?

He says desire is the memory of pleasure and fear is the memory of pain.

Both make the mind restless.

Even a small desire,

Any small desire,

You are walking past an ice cream shop,

You see the picture of mint ice cream,

The picture of a past memory of the mint ice cream,

Tasting it,

Relishing it comes up and you say,

I loved mint ice cream last time.

It evokes a new desire,

Just the memory of something,

A pleasant event is what evokes the desire.

Is this very clear how desire comes up?

So he is saying desire is the memory of pleasure.

It's very very clear,

You can never have the desire for something that you have never tasted before.

Desire is always for something that you have tasted before.

I am not just talking about ice cream,

Anything else in the world.

So desire is the memory of pleasure,

The pleasure that I thought I got from that object.

Really pleasure comes from within and this we will see in the upcoming chapters.

But I thought that I got from that object,

That is what kindles desire in me.

Fear is the memory of pain.

Somebody said something to me in the past and in the past I did not like it,

Like it and I repeated it zillion times in my mind and zillion times a sensation,

Unpleasant sensation came up and I did not like it.

So I have a memory of that,

Yes I have a memory of that bad sensation.

Today when I meet that same person again,

What happens?

Now I have the fear,

Oh he should not say the same thing he said that day.

Very clear?

So fear is the memory of pain.

You know I just gave you a simple example,

You apply it to all your fears.

All your fears are nothing but memories of pain.

All your desires are nothing but memories of pleasure and both evoke restlessness in me.

Both of them.

Moments of pleasure are merely gaps in the stream of pain.

How can the mind be happy?

Where is Mr.

Gadatta Maharaj going with this?

He is bringing you to the truth that mind cannot be happy because mind equals to pain,

Thought equals to pain.

Thought is either a desire,

Let's say simple,

Make it simple,

Thought is either of the pleasant or thought is of the unpleasant.

Pleasant is usually a desire,

Unpleasant is usually a fear or rejection.

Even if we don't use these big words,

Just saying that pleasant and unpleasant,

This is what is thought.

Thought is equal to mind.

Right now we understood that both pleasant and unpleasant only make me restless.

Didn't we understand that desire also makes me restless and fear also makes me restless?

So the pleasant also makes me restless,

The unpleasant also makes me restless.

That is what is thought and thought equals mind.

Can the mind ever be happy?

Big revelation,

Huh?

Oh,

Mind cannot be happy.

Think about this,

Contemplate on this,

Directly experience this.

This is more important.

When you experience this and truly understand this,

Like truly,

Truly in your self-exploration understand this that I the mind,

When I become one with the mind,

I the mind cannot find happiness in the son or the daughter or the spouse or the relationship,

The sex or the money or the power or the politics or whatever.

I the mind cannot be happy.

What is the problem?

The Tadatma is the problem.

Are you getting it?

The mind cannot be happy.

When this becomes your true experience,

When you realize this,

Yes,

This is true,

This will break.

This Tadatma that you have with the mind,

I am the mind,

It is there because you still keep hoping,

No,

No,

I'll get some juice in this position as the CEO of the company.

I'll get some juice in this million dollar.

Oh,

I'll get some juice in this new,

Beautiful relationship in my life.

When you really look at it truthfully in your direct experience and recognize that mind cannot be happy,

It's impossible,

Then this Tadatma breaks.

Then you recognize,

Ah,

Now I am free.

Now let the mind come up with its desire or let it come up with its fear.

It does not touch me.

It's like a wave that rises and falls,

A wave that rises and falls,

A wave that rises and falls.

I remain untouched.

The Tadatma breaking is the real experiential understanding of this mistake.

Yes,

And how will that happen?

When you really understand this truth,

The mind cannot be happy.

Questioner,

That is true when we desire pleasure or expect pain.

But there are moments of unexpected,

Unanticipated joy,

Pure joy,

Uncontaminated by desire,

Unsought,

Undeserved,

God-given.

Don't you have the same question right now?

Yeah,

So he's asking your question.

Maharaj Still,

Joy is joy only against a background of pain.

Even when it is unanticipated,

Unsought,

God-given,

Still there is that background of pain of the mind.

We are talking about mind only here.

Yeah,

That's why I specified that he has repeated his question.

Between the body and between the sense of being,

That which is in the middle,

That is the mind.

Yeah,

So that mind itself is the background of pain because it is restless,

Because it is desirous.

Even when some joy comes to it,

It is just a glimpse of the real joy,

The truth.

Yeah,

It's just a reflection,

Like the reflection of the light of the moon.

Yeah,

The moon does not have its own light.

That light is coming from the sun.

Yeah,

It's not its own.

It seems beautiful,

But it lasts only a short while.

It's not there all the time for us.

Yeah,

Just like that,

This little joy that comes,

The glimpse has got nothing to do with the mind.

The mind itself is the background of pain.

Yeah,

Thoughts,

Perceptions,

Sensations,

Feelings are nothing but pain.

So now the questioner really starts thinking and he says,

Then is pain a cosmic fact or is it just purely mental?

Yeah,

Cosmic fact means the truth of existence.

Oh,

Everything is painful.

Now he's gone towards absolutely making everything nihilistic.

Yeah,

Catastrophic,

End of the world.

Matlab,

There is only dukkha.

Yeah,

You see,

He's going that way.

So Maharaj says,

The universe is complete and where there is completeness,

Where nothing lacks,

What can give pain?

Total opposite.

Yeah,

You see,

Because he answers to the question.

The questioner went absolutely catastrophic,

End of the world.

So Maharaj went exact opposite.

Yeah,

That which is complete,

Where can there be pain?

So where is Maharaj taking him?

From that middle level where he's in the mind,

Now Maharaj is taking him to the sense of being.

Yeah,

The sense of I am,

The awareness,

Yeah,

The witness,

The consciousness.

So he's taking him from the mind to the awareness.

The questioner says,

The universe may be complete as a whole but incomplete in details.

He is hinting at the details of the mind,

The mind being unhappy.

So Maharaj says,

A part of the whole seen in relation to the whole is also complete.

Only when seen in isolation it becomes deficient and thus a seat of pain.

Yeah,

Do you understand this?

He's seeing only the mind.

He wants only the mind to be happy.

He's not bothered about the body and he's not bothered about the sense of being.

Did you see his question?

Yeah,

It's the first question and the question has repeated again here.

Yeah,

So he's concentrating on the mind.

So he's isolating the mind and saying,

I want the mind to be happy.

So Maharaj is saying,

Because you are looking at a part in isolation,

Then obviously it is pain.

But look at the part in relation to the whole,

Then it is complete.

Then there is no pain.

Maharaj asks,

What makes for isolation?

He answers,

Limitations of the mind of course.

The mind cannot see the whole for the part.

Yeah,

Mind just wants to see,

No,

You make me happy in this desire.

You take this little fear away.

It's not ready to see the whole.

It's not ready to see the sense of being.

Yeah,

It's not ready to see,

I the witness,

I the awareness.

That is the whole.

That has forgotten itself and just taken on this little role of the mind and the body.

So when I look at it in the part,

In isolation,

Then there is dukkha.

But when I look at it as the whole,

Then it is complete.

Then there is no pain.

Maharaj says,

Good enough.

The mind by its very nature divides and opposes.

Can there be some other mind which unites and harmonizes,

Which sees the whole in the part and the part as totally related to the whole?

Where is he taking him?

He made another mind now.

Very creative Maharaj is.

There is no other mind.

You have to cajole a little child when the child says,

No,

I want chocolate candy only.

So mummy has to become creative and say,

You know,

There is another bigger,

Tastier chocolate candy.

You let this go.

This has too much sugar in it.

That has more cocoa.

It's more tasty.

It's yummy.

So giving the same thing in a different way,

But taking you to the sense of being.

That's what Maharaj is doing here.

He's saying,

Can there be some other mind?

Why?

Because this mind of yours is only dividing things.

It's only opposing.

It wants this.

It doesn't want that.

You know,

It's not a mind that is very yummy.

It's too much sugar,

Not healthy.

Let's move towards less sugar.

So he's saying,

Can there be some other mind which unites and harmonizes,

Which sees the whole in the part and the part as totally related to the whole?

Basically,

He's taking him beyond the mind.

Questioner gets very interested.

He said,

The other mind,

Where to look for it?

He is only interested in happiness.

I want joy.

So where to look for this other mind?

Maharaj says,

In the going beyond the limiting,

Dividing and opposing mind.

Please highlight.

This is very important.

Your mind keeps dividing things.

Your mind keeps opposing.

I like this.

I don't like this.

I want this.

I don't want this.

This is right.

This is wrong.

If you want to put one word for it,

Your mind is judgmental.

Can I just drop judgments?

Every time a judgment arises,

Can I drop and just take a step back and be in the sense of being,

The other mind,

The tastier chocolate bar instead of the unhealthy chocolate candy?

The unhealthy chocolate candy does only dividing and opposing and creating more dwandwa,

It is called in Sanskrit,

More conflict.

That conflict is about the world and people in the world,

But it troubles me.

Because the dwandwa plays on an infinite,

Continuous record in my mind.

It troubles me.

So can I drop the judging,

Drop the labeling,

Drop this limiting,

Dividing,

Opposing.

What is,

Is.

What is,

Is.

Again and again,

What is,

Is.

Drop the judgments,

The other mind.

And what is,

Is means going to the sense of being,

The witness,

The awareness.

In the going beyond the limiting,

Dividing and opposing mind,

In ending the mental process as we know it.

When this comes to end,

That mind is born.

There is no other mind.

This is just chocolate candy.

Very,

Very clear.

He is taking you away from the mind.

He is telling you to take one step behind.

Go beyond and be in the sense of being.

That is where you will find harmony.

Again and again,

Be in the sense of being.

Questioner,

In that mind,

The problem of joy and sorrow exists no longer?

Maharaj says,

Not as we know them,

As desirable or repugnant.

What is your problem?

You want something or you reject something.

You want to push away something.

This problem is not there.

Why?

Because the moment you are in the sense of being,

It is what is,

Is.

So if there is pleasant,

It is what it is.

If there is unpleasant,

It is what is.

It arises and falls.

I remain in the is-ness.

Very clear?

It becomes rather a question of love-seeking expression and meeting with obstacles.

So love-seeking expression is that sense of being that is love.

That itself is love.

Right now,

Some of you might not see it as love.

But some of you already feel very sweet when you are there.

Very peaceful.

The right word is in Hindi,

Sukun.

You feel Sukun only in that sense of being.

The moment you are in the mind,

Again conflict starts and drama starts.

The moment you take the step back again to the witness,

You feel the sweet peace,

The Sukun.

Yeah?

That is love.

And that love seeks expression.

Yeah?

So it is seeking expression and meeting with obstacles.

The mind is nothing but an obstacle.

Yeah?

But it doesn't give any importance to the obstacles.

Always remain as the changeless,

Quiet background.

Peaceful and in harmony.

The inclusive mind is love in action,

Battling against circumstances.

Initially frustrated,

Ultimately victorious.

Yeah?

Initially you might be frustrated because you are still having the old habit pattern of looking for grasping the pleasant and rejecting the unpleasant.

But slowly,

As it grows on you,

You just stay in the sense of being.

It grows on you,

It grows on you,

It grows on you.

And then what is,

Is.

It's snowing.

Okay.

It's sunny.

Okay.

It's raining.

Okay.

Yeah?

You have an equanimous graph.

Yeah?

You naturally come to it.

How?

Just by being in the sense of being.

Yeah?

The step you have to take beyond the mind.

You have to be witness of the mind.

Witness of the body to always be there.

Between the spirit and the body,

Is it love that provides the bridge?

What else?

Mind creates the abyss.

The heart crosses it.

Yeah?

It is your mind that is just creating all this drama.

Your heart will cross it.

So it is called heart.

The witness,

The awareness,

The consciousness,

The sense of being is also called the heart.

This is a very fond word of Ramana Maharshi.

Ramana Maharshi calls the same thing as heart.

Or he also calls it the self or absolute awareness.