Finding Purpose Within The Pain With Christina Lerchen

I am so stoked to have you on the show and I want to start off where we start off all of our interviews and that is with your lost story.

Of course.

My lost story actually started about,

It will be close to six years actually this year and my best friend of 27 years was diagnosed with breast cancer which ended up becoming metastatic breast cancer.

And about a month after we discovered her cancer,

I had been pregnant at the time and my water broke around 20 weeks and I ended up having to deliver my daughter who was a stillbirth because of that time.

So for the last six years I've kind of been dealing,

Or I had been dealing with the loss not only of my daughter but the decline and illness of my best friend who,

You know,

She was essentially,

For lack of better words,

A soulmate in my life since I was a little girl.

So it was a simultaneous grief experience for me and what I really discovered was how different they both were.

You think,

Especially with cancer,

That you can prepare and the truth is you really can't.

It's such an extensive journey,

Not only watching the person you adore suffer and knowing their fate but then also having the kind of shocking grief I had of the loss of our first child and then due to that the subsequent illnesses on my own that caused.

So it's been about six years now where I've really had to kind of go inward and try and discover what was happening,

Not only with my own reactions to grief and how it was changing my life and my perspective and my heart but also how the people around you react to it because it truly changes everything around you.

It's not just you,

It's your connections with others,

Your communications with others,

And for me it became such a profound learning experience that it really changed the course of my life.

That's incredible and it sounds like you just got totally double whammied by life.

Yeah,

Not one but two.

Smashed.

Yeah,

It was,

You know,

I'd like to,

And I've said it before that I truly feel that at the time it felt like a tornado.

It felt there were times where you kind of just sit back and you start to get that mentality of what's next,

You know,

You just feel like you're being hit from every direction.

And that's when I really decided that it was for my own sanity and future and to learn how to move through these processes that that's when I started diving into,

You know,

Learning about grief,

Learning about resilience,

Strength,

How we can take these traumas and instead of letting them dismantle us,

Learn how to let them heal us and help us grow because it truly was,

As you said,

It was a constant back to back of her illness and then because of my body,

Which as I'm sure you know,

When you're going through grief and stress,

You're body also responds to that.

I was fighting my own illnesses as I was trying to be there for her and figure out what happened to my life essentially,

Because it changes you,

It just profoundly changes you.

So everything you,

You kind of held on to or thought you knew about yourself really kind of turns on its head.

So it's a rebirth in so many ways.

I'm curious to know what changed in your work and your relationships and your family life immediately after hearing the news of both of these events.

Well,

And that's actually what's become kind of my passion and mission is because what I realized is that nobody is prepared for the conversations and the connections that need to happen when you see somebody suffering and going through grief.

We truly as a society have blocked it out.

We don't want to deal with it.

We don't know how to have those conversations and sit with somebody in their discomfort or their pain.

Even watching Nikki and how she was trying to navigate who to tell,

Who to let in,

Or who to let go of because the unfortunate thing and sometimes actually the beautiful thing about it is that you do kind of get to really see who walks into your life and who walks out when times get rough.

And so for my family,

That was never a question.

I come from a huge,

We call them the feral family tree.

My three sisters and my mom,

Once something happens,

Everyone knows within 10 minutes and everyone kind of jumps in and goes straight to the house with food and comfort.

It was the friendships that were a little more difficult because some people didn't truly know how to connect.

They want everything to stay the same,

Which is joyful and happy and partying.

And there's a time where that's okay.

And there's another time where you need to be able to just be there and be present for someone.

And what I realized is a lot of people really don't have the knowledge or experience of how to do that for the people they love.

Because what you find is the people who are willing to sit there with you for it,

You'll have so much more joy with them and connection because you've allowed yourself to have that vulnerability.

I joke that one of the worst things we say as a community is I am fine.

Those three words should be banished from the English language because it puts up such an immediate block and 90% of the time it's truly not true.

It's just the only thing we know what to say because we're afraid to let people in or have that connection.

Because I think some of us have been burned when we try and be vulnerable and say,

I'm suffering,

I'm grieving,

I'm having a hard time.

You get the people that fight back with,

Oh,

Just be positive.

Everything happens for a reason.

God has a plan and that'll shut you down because that makes you not want to communicate.

So it's really kind of gently teaching the people around you,

Your family and your friends,

What you need,

The presence you need from them and the communication that's so important because that's how the healing truly happens is when you have people who love you enough to say,

This is awful,

This sucks right now.

There is nothing I can say that will make this better,

But I want you to know I'm here for you.

We will get through this together.

It's that moment of sitting down and being with the person and saying that you can't fix this,

But you're there with them through the journey.

And that's such a powerful thing that we can all learn and try and do for the people we love.

So I want to take you back to the midst of your personal tornado.

Who were the people that were with you that did see you in that?

Well,

Definitely,

Ironically,

When I lost my daughter,

Nikki,

Who even through her own illness at the time was right there with me,

Which is,

That's always who she was.

So it was incredible.

Obviously,

My family and my husband,

Which is for me,

The beautiful gift of it is that actually brought Mike and I much closer.

And it wasn't easy.

Men have a very different way of handling grief.

Mike was back to work two days after because they need to keep busy.

They need to protect and they feel that they need to be strong.

And it was learning our communication skills with each other that really helped us to grow.

And also I had some friends that were just mere acquaintances that the friendships became so profound and grew because they were the ones that showed up.

And then that's the thing that's been the most amazing for me is some of my strongest relationships that I have right now are the people who walked in during that time and who said,

I'm here.

I'm willing to listen to what's happening to you and help you find your joy again.

So we're very,

Very lucky in that sense that we have a really strong group of about three or four couples that just kind of wrapped around us and showed me,

Helped me find my laughter again,

Both after the loss of our daughter and then last year after the loss of when Nikki finally passed away.

I mean,

I had girlfriends that would just show up with food or show up with a glass of wine and say,

Let's,

You don't have to say anything.

I just want you to know I'm here.

And that's incredible.

I mean,

It was,

It taught me so much about relationships and connection and how you have to be present for the people you love.

Was there a place in your life in this point in time where you felt safe?

Oh,

Absolutely.

That would always be with Mike.

When Nikki was around with Nikki,

She was always home for me.

And after Nikki,

It was my husband,

My family.

And then the few close girlfriends I talked about who would,

You know,

Help me find my laughter again.

So for me,

Relationships are always home for me.

I could,

You know,

I could be at a Taco Bell with the people I love and feel safe and home.

Taco Bell does heal a lot of things as well.

And what did you do if you did anything to honor both of these people in your life that you lost?

I feel that allowing myself to be vulnerable and share the story is honoring them.

Very much so because it's it was not an easy thing for me.

I'm actually one of the people who used to be that I'm fine,

Everything's great.

I need to be strong for everyone else around me and not share my vulnerability.

Learning to be brave enough to share their stories,

No matter how hard it is,

I feel honors them very much.

So,

Because it's also when you lose somebody,

Especially somebody as profound as a sibling,

Which Nikki was to me,

Or a family member,

Anyone that is close to you in that way and holds such dear memories and holds a place in your heart.

For some reason,

I think we feel we have to stop talking about them or we have to,

You know,

Once somebody passes that has to kind of be put away.

The way I feel I can honor them is keeping those stories,

Keeping those memories,

Keeping the,

You know,

Even though my daughter,

I didn't get to have memories,

I have memories of how much I was so excited to be a mother.

I have the honor of the fact that because of her life,

Even though it didn't,

You know,

Wasn't able to come to fruition,

She brought my husband and I closer.

Like she started me on a journey of learning who I was.

And with Nikki,

I love to talk about her and share stories about her all the time.

And my friends,

Thank God,

Are really great at listening,

You know,

Nikki would love this song or Oh God,

Nikki would love this food or just making sure she's still embraced and remembered because she was just extraordinary and her life shouldn't have to end with her passing.

And so for me,

That's the biggest way I feel that I can honor them is by still making sure that,

You know,

I'm allowing the impact they had on my life to continue.

Would you mind sharing a Nikki story with us?

Like your favorite one?

One of my things I think I will always go back to she,

She loved she embraced.

Well first off,

She was one of the most incredibly selfless people I've ever known.

She was a social worker for homeless teenagers.

And that was just her passion.

She adored helping her kiddos as she would call them.

And they just loved her because she was so great at kind of making them feel heard and understood.

And for me,

I really,

I always had so much respect for that,

The way that she took these these kids,

These teenagers that felt they had,

You know,

No voice or no place.

And she listened to them with such love and respect.

She treated them with such respect.

And then the other thing that always comes up is she enjoyed play.

Like,

You know,

If it was the summertime,

She was the first person running into the water at midnight,

You know,

In the oceans,

Or if she saw a swing set,

You know,

Even in her 30s,

She would be the first one running to that swing set and jumping on a swing.

And those are kind of the memories that I have so much joy about because I think when it came down to it that really represented her as well,

You know,

She always just wanted to have that experience and have that fun.

We never bought presents for each other,

We bought experiences.

So every birthday,

We would buy a concert to go to with each other,

Or something like that,

Because it was about,

You know,

Not things,

But memories.

And I'll definitely always hold on to that very much.

So Oh,

My goodness.

That's so beautiful.

I'm just I'm smiling over here because I can envision this 30 year old woman just running headfirst for a swing set.

She loved her swings.

I just absolutely love that.

And do you have a favorite memory or favorite story about your daughter as well?

I don't know if it's necessarily a memory.

The memory I have,

I think was just the excitement of knowing I was going to be a mother.

I remember when we found out it was going to be a girl and picking her name out.

So it was those little things that really kind of thrill you.

And then it's also the fact of how close,

You know,

Her life brought my husband and I together.

And so I think that's incredibly profound.

Like she had such a beautiful gift that she gave to us.

Even though she wasn't able to be here,

You know,

In the physical form,

She still is what binds my husband and I together and in love because she brought us together and how we communicate how we kind of walk through the world.

So that's for me,

Her memory is strong in her spirit.

Oh,

I love that too.

Those dreams are very important to us and the hopes that that come along with them.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

I'm so sorry that you lost both of these people.

Thank you.

Thank you.

It's,

It's,

I'm always grateful not only for people to,

Which is another thing I try and teach is to honor them by saying they,

You know,

They were there.

One of my favorite things that I have from my girlfriends or when they will call me a mom,

You know,

Or at,

Or treat me as a mother,

Because even though she's not here,

I still am and was a mother.

And that's so important that we honor that within each other and that we honor these people in our lives.

You know,

I have people whose parents have got,

Have been lost and being able to ask questions like,

You know,

Asking us for me to share a story of Nicole.

It's so important that we do that for each other.

It really is.

You've mentioned your teachings a couple of times and I'm curious about how you got from feeling the tornado of your grief and being just stuck in the aftermath of that to coming to a place where you could come back from it.

Like was there an event that happened or a book that you read or a teacher that you found that really called you to come back to your life again after your losses?

Absolutely.

There was actually a few.

I read Cheryl Strayed's Tiny Beautiful Things and she has one of her teachings in there is talking about how you can honor your lost children and still find grace in the moving on from them.

You know,

That your strength will come in,

You know,

I think she says moving forward or she has a much better,

I would have to find it.

I wasn't prepared for that question,

But it's in her book,

Tiny Beautiful Things.

That chapter,

I think I read it a thousand times just going over and over again about being able to know that you can rise above it.

That you know,

But getting happy,

Growing and finding grace doesn't mean that you're neglecting that loss.

It means that you're actually gaining strength from it.

And then I was introduced to Renee Brown,

Which I'm sure everyone,

I hope everyone knows who she is.

She's just incredible.

And she was what opened me up to the fact that our stories and our vulnerability and not being afraid of the pain is actually something that will make you stronger and help you to have a more courageous and full heart and a fuller life.

You know,

That the open hearted among us are the strongest.

And I just clung to that.

I thought it was one of the most profound things I had heard because we're always,

At least for me,

You know,

You're always kind of taught that be strong,

Don't let anything hurt you,

Don't cry,

You know,

Just keep moving forward and to have somebody say,

No,

It's your vulnerability and your stories and your pain that you need to be proud of because those are the things that you grow from.

You know,

She does that whole poem about standing in the middle of the arena,

You know,

And being brave that way,

Being seen.

And those were the things that truly,

I think,

Started to move me forward on my journey to really wanting to learn more about those processes,

To wanting to know how I could take the things that I thought were going to dismantle me.

You know,

That some of your greatest,

My greatest fears growing up were not being a mom and not having Nikki by my side and both of those happened.

And so how do you move forward through those fears and through those realities without it,

Without it tearing you apart?

You know,

How can you still find your laughter again and find the grace and the growth in these experiences?

So those were the two teachers that absolutely kind of got the ball rolling for me and lit something up inside me that wanted to try again,

Because I heard something that resonated with me,

That gave me hope that I could find purpose within all the pain.

I absolutely love that and it's a big reason for why this podcast exists is to share the stories and the words and the insights of other people who are also walking their way through the tornado.

And you just asked some really good questions that I'm going to pose back to you.

How do you move forward into the future with that open heart?

I guess to combine Cheryl Strait and Bernie Brown,

How do you move forward with an open heart?

For me,

I think the biggest,

The moment that I could find that I found myself having a trajectory of feeling that I was going to be pulled out of that darkness was when I opened myself up enough to friendships that allowed me to be not perfect,

Not brave,

Not the one who fixes everything.

You know,

I kind of have always,

I'd always been the person that took care of other people and really wasn't comfortable with people taking care of me.

And the minute that I said,

You know,

I'm going to trust enough to let people see this side of me and to let them be there for me was the minute kind of things changed.

The minute I started,

You know,

Instead of pushing down the pain,

Writing about the pain,

Journaling helps,

Getting back to the creative aspects of my life that I kind of put aside in a box,

Which I think we all kind of do sometimes,

You know,

And that's why I joke that coloring pages have become so popular now because there's something in it that needs to shut out that,

You know,

The technology or the requirements or the,

You know,

Responsibilities.

And it's true,

You know,

I'm sure you have had this too during some of your grief,

But you know,

You have insomnia.

There are nights you can't sleep.

So those were the nights where I would turn on a funny 80s movie or color for a few hours or journal,

Just anything I could do that kind of brought me back to a quiet and a peace,

You know,

Taking away those things that you think you have to do and getting back to just finding a place of joy for yourself.

You know,

I always joke that,

You know,

Mac and cheese in a good 80s comedy can cure a lot of sadness.

Yeah,

But I mean,

For me,

It was just,

It was,

It was being strong enough to be vulnerable.

And I know that seems very paradoxical,

But I think it's true because now my friendships are on such a completely different level than they were before any of this happened because we've opened up the dialogue of pain.

And if you're brave enough to talk about your pain,

Then when you have that joy together with friendships and relationships,

It takes it to a whole nother level.

You know,

The belly laughs become stronger.

The night staying up,

Talking with your friends become stronger because you're not coming from a place of,

You know,

Frivolity.

You're just talking about your job or things like that.

You're coming from such a deep connection and it's incredible.

And I think that that was probably my,

My hugest,

My biggest life lesson was learning that the minute you do let the people in who want to be there for you.

I think we have a fear that it will,

Will frighten people away and you might grief grief will make some people flee and you have to forgive those people and let them go because the people that are strong enough to walk in are the people you will have in your life forever.

I absolutely love your answer to that question.

It really is kind of the formula,

Quote unquote,

For moving forward beyond grief is opening up with that humanity to other people.

Because once you realize you're not alone,

The pressure it takes off of your heart.

Because grief can be one of the most isolating experiences in the world.

Because not only do we not want to,

You know,

People sometimes can treat you like you have,

You know,

I always say people can treat you like you have a disease,

Like they can catch your pain,

You know,

If you get too vulnerable.

So I think we put up this wall of,

Well,

I'm heartbroken right now and I'm broken.

So it's better that I just don't see anybody.

Because I think that's kind of what we've been taught,

You know,

Grieve alone,

Keep quiet,

Be strong for the people around you.

And the truth is,

It actually needs to be the exact opposite.

We need to feel safe enough and brave enough to tell our stories,

To share the stories of the people we left and lost,

So that we can grow,

You know,

So that we can get those laughter,

So we had those moments of belly laughs back,

So that we can understand that collectively and universally,

We actually are all not alone.

We're all going through this together.

There's,

As you know,

With the grief recovery program,

There's over 47 different ways that we grieve.

And yet nobody talks about it.

And so I think if we all talked about it,

As a community,

We would have such potential for love and growth,

It would be profound.

I'm curious now to know how your connections with others and your desire to talk about grief and loss and our stories have manifested into your teachings and into your work.

And I'm also curious to know,

Like,

What did you do before you did that?

How did that crop up and transform into a business in your life?

It's interesting and it's still,

I think people still sometimes give me the side eye or the eyebrow that goes up.

I was actually a professional makeup artist and one of the first beauty bloggers for over 18 years.

Oh,

How cool.

And about a year before Nikki passed,

I've been going through all this kind of on my own,

Not really talking about it,

But I will say that the beauty industry definitely,

Like my heart was no longer in it.

You know,

When you're going through something that changes you,

It's really hard to talk about mascara.

I love that so much.

So true.

And it's so true.

People are talking about the weather and you're like,

Are you effing kidding me right now?

What is this real shit going on?

Totally.

It's like,

I really don't care what foundation I'm wearing.

I was becoming a different person.

So for me,

The connectivity,

I was gone.

And it's also,

You know,

I've been doing it for 18 years.

So for me,

As I was growing and changing my connections and what I wanted in life was growing and changing.

So about a year before Nikki passed,

I just kind of wanted to spend as much time with her as I could and also deal with my own grief because you know,

There's preparatory grief that happens.

I knew as her cancer started spreading that our time was becoming less.

So I ended up selling my beauty blog,

Which was such a beautiful gift that I was even able to do that.

So I sold my company and from some of the money from that,

I was able to take time off of work and put some money into education and research.

So I took as many courses as I could get on grief,

On self-development,

On vulnerability,

On self-compassion.

I kind of ate anything I could off the internet that would help me or fuel my soul or even just make me understand what was going on because what I think a lot of people don't understand too is you could have many different types of grief.

With the loss of my daughter,

It was a shock.

It was an anger.

It was a devastation.

With Nikki,

It was a much more profound grief because it was a loss of a future I expected with her,

You know?

And it was a loss also of a part of who you are because I think anyone who's lost a parent or a spouse or a sibling can understand that there's a part of you that also goes with them because it's the memories.

It's the communication.

It's the future that you mourn that you won't have anymore.

I still pick up the phone when something happens to call her.

It's just instinctual.

It's not even a thought in my head.

So sometimes instead of texting,

I'll go on and I'll write her an email that I never send or something so I can still have that communication going.

And so for me,

Yeah,

The grief I think can take on so many different forms.

It really can.

So you have the preparatory and so learning about grief,

Learning about self-help,

Diving into those courses for me is what helped me understand that journey I was going through because it was completely different than what I went through with my daughter.

And I wanted to know kind of why.

I wanted to know how.

And then the more I explored it,

The more I just became so passionate about this community and realized how little we talk about grief and how little as a community we share about it when we're so we want it so bad because I don't,

You know,

I'm sure with you and this podcast,

Which is beautiful,

What you realize is when you share your story,

So many people open up and want to share too,

Because you're brave enough to start the conversation.

You know,

With me,

When I talk about the loss of my daughter,

It's heartbreaking and beautiful at the same time to hear how many of my friends and mothers have said,

Oh my God,

I had a miscarriage too,

Or I've battled infertility for years.

But these are pains that are blocked away and hushed closets and silences and they don't need to be because the amount of relief and comfort that we can take within each other when we share stories is what will move us forward.

And so that's kind of how,

You know,

I joke that I was outer beauty business and I'm in the inner beauty business.

Perfect.

It does.

I mean,

And I still obviously,

You know,

Work online,

Which,

Which I was doing with the blog forever so that,

You know,

Everything kind of leads into the other.

And you know,

Even as a makeup artist,

Which I'm sure we all do in our hairstylist,

You know,

We're getting our hair done.

And you end up becoming the counselor because people feel safe and want to talk to you.

And makeup is also a mask that we all put on ourselves because we want that perfection.

And so in truth,

It's really not,

It's a different subject.

It's a different heart space,

But it's the same as trying to uncover the vulnerability and the beauty in people that are being suppressed.

It's the most impactful and important work I've ever done in my life.

Oh,

And I love hearing that for you.

That's what I want for everybody's life.

Not necessarily that they all become grief specialists,

But that they do find this work that totally just fulfills them.

And I'm,

I'm curious to know now looking back over the last six or so years,

How has the tornado,

How have these two losses changed in your mind?

Like what beliefs or thoughts did you use to hold about them that you no longer hold or which ones have kind of cropped to the surface as new beliefs?

Like how do you look back on that time in your life now?

That's a really interesting question.

I will say that the way I look at my,

The passing of,

Of my daughter has changed significantly at first.

And I'm the first to admit this,

That,

You know,

I didn't handle it well at all.

You know,

I,

It was such a,

I was so angry and so shocked,

You know,

And then the subsequent illnesses that came out of it,

Cause my body had a very hard time with,

With loss.

It was very hard for me to wrap my head around because,

And I've,

And I've spoken to us actually with a couple of other mothers who have had the same experience.

You know,

I went through the labor,

My daughter was born,

But because she's not here and present,

I not able to call myself a mother.

I'm not able to talk about a child,

You know,

Especially in normal conversations.

So there's a part of you that does shut down a bit because it's such a weird,

You know,

As a woman,

I get asked on a daily basis,

Do you have children?

Do you want children?

Are you going to have children?

And do you have to kind of go through what we like to call,

You know,

The decision tree of do I share it with a person?

Do I say,

I don't have children?

Do I say I have one child who passed?

You know,

It,

It becomes a conversation of how do you,

How do you honor the truth of the fact that yes,

We did have a child who's no longer here,

But then who do you share that with?

So for me,

That was kind of the journey.

Now I'm a little bit braver with saying,

Yes,

We had a child.

No,

We can't have any more children.

And we're looking into adoption.

Like my answers are becoming braver,

I will say.

And the anger has definitely changed.

I no longer look at it as,

As something to be angry about because I can now see it as she truly was,

Was the trajectory that,

That became my life's purpose.

So she had such a beautiful purpose.

And so that,

That's how my work,

My,

My view has changed on that.

As far as Nikki goes,

I don't know if the view has changed,

Except I think it's taught me a lot about appreciating the people around you.

To be honest,

It's been a year,

It was a year in April,

So it's still fresh.

I look at my friendship with her and the lessons she taught me just from who she was.

And I mean,

She,

She lived everything on her own terms,

Even cancer,

She fought it on her own terms.

And so I look at that and she'll always have a really huge influence on my life that way.

You know,

And how,

No matter what,

She,

As we all should,

Didn't care what anyone else thought.

She did it her own way.

You know,

Wonder Woman was her spirit animal,

As she liked to say.

And so,

You know,

Even with the movie out and everything that's going out,

Like she's around,

She's here.

And I just kind of joke all the time.

I'm like,

You know,

Wonder Woman is everywhere right now.

So it's,

It's beautiful for me to be able to see that because for her,

That was her,

That's what got her through is she just had Wonder Woman symbols everywhere.

And that was her,

Her kind of symbol of fighting it.

And I thought that was,

Was profound,

But it is still a little new enough that I can't say that I've changed.

I will say I was,

I have such a,

An appreciation and connection with people who are fighting terminal diseases because it's,

It's not a linear line and you are grieving the entire time that person is,

Whether or not you realize it.

And it's a different grief,

Obviously that,

You know,

Preparatory grief that you,

That you're going through.

So I can look back obviously on those five years that she was fighting her cancer.

And it was,

It was a rollercoaster because as a person and as a friend,

You're trying to learn how to be present and also how to,

You know,

Get the space they need.

And for the people suffering,

It's a rollercoaster for them too.

So you can never really be prepared enough to know how to,

How to help them in the way you can.

You can only just do your best as a friend and be present.

And I think that's what it taught me the most was just some,

You know,

She said one of the best things that I had ever said to her was,

This is awful,

This sucks and there's nothing I can do to help you except to be there for you.

And she said that's what she wanted to hear because she was feisty as hell.

And she said,

If one more person told me that I'm going to be okay,

I wanted to look at them and be like,

What part of terminal cancer do you not understand?

And so,

And I think that also taught me a huge lesson is that we can't,

We can't pretend it's not happening.

And that makes the person feel so alone and so isolated when we say,

You're going to be fine.

It's all going to be fine.

No sit with them and say,

This sucks and we're going to be in this together.

And if all you can do is just sit there and hold their hand and listen to them,

That's the biggest gift you can do.

And so she definitely taught me that as well.

And also learning how to,

You know,

Take the moments and enjoy the moments as you can.

You know,

When she was feeling good,

Doing something,

Doing anything,

Going to a concert,

Just going out and having a good dinner,

Whatever you can do.

So that I think for me is the lessons I'm holding onto right now.

I do want to ask you one last question though,

And that is how our listeners can get in touch with you if they have stories of their own that they want to share with you that are related or if they kind of touch base with your spirit during the course of the show,

What's the best way for them to find you?

Oh,

Well definitely.

I created a site called the best unexpected.

And through that we have a Facebook,

A private Facebook community where they can join us and they can always reach out to me as well.

It's just Christina at the best unexpected dot com.

But the Facebook community is the best way to really kind of be a part of the space that we're building,

Which is helping people not only find the creative tools such as journaling prompts or the coloring pages that I talked about.

I call them insomnia pages.

I don't know if that's the right word,

But then the my insomnia pages.

And then we are currently building video courses such as like grief journaling,

Helping with you know,

Art therapy,

Helping to,

As I said,

Learn how to connect with other people,

Learn how to open yourself up.

So this will be launched in the fall.

I'm really looking forward to that,

To be able to hopefully reach more people and help people learn how to talk to each other.

That's my biggest goal right now is to help dismantle the stigma around grief,

To teach people how to connect with each other,

To teach people how to be vulnerable and be open.

It's a process I'm even still learning constantly and to give people the space to know that they're not alone.

So I would definitely say please join our Facebook community.

There's links all over the website.

And you can also obviously reach out to me if there's a personal story that you would like to share and open your heart with,

I'd be more than honored to hold that space for people because the truth is,

Like I said,

One of the ways that we can heal and move forward the best is to know that we're not alone and to know that other people have not only gone through grief,

But have found a way to recover and move forward and still hold space for the people they left and lost.

And so I can only hope that you know,

Through your podcast through all of us talking that this can be kind of a movement where we are no longer frightened to talk about it and can be open to each other and learn that there's nothing to be your pain and your grief is nothing to be ashamed of.

And if you can find a way to find grace through it,

You can absolutely grow and heal and become so much stronger and your empathy and your compassion,

Just everything kind of hits a level that you never knew you had in you.

And I don't know about you,

But it's just I want those connections for everybody else.

We're doing the work.

I know you've got to do the work.

It's so important.

It's so important.

And it's not easy.

And I think I want people to know that like this,

It is work,

As you said,

But it's such powerful and healing and purposeful work.

That it's worth every moment of uncomfortableness.

You know,

It's the like,

Trust the process,

Trust yourself,

Trust your heart.

We're all so much stronger than we believe.

We're all so much more than,

You know,

The perfect Instagram or Pinterest lives that we're trying to compare ourselves and compete with.

It's in the pain.

It's in the grief that we'll find our beauty.

I truly believe that.

And that just seems like a perfect place to close out our interview today.

That was absolutely perfect.

Thank you so much,

Christina,

For coming on the show today and sharing your story.

For everybody listening,

I will leave a link to Christina's website in our show notes today so you can find her no matter what platform you're listening on.

And Christina,

Just thank you so much again for coming on the show.

It's an honor.

Thank you for having this show for everybody.