Interview with Bethany Auriel-Hagan

So hi,

I'm Tom Evans,

And my guest on The Zone Show today is Bethany Oriel-Hagan.

How are you?

I'm well,

Tom.

Thank you.

It's a joy to be here.

Well,

You know,

I've been listening to your voice for about two years now,

And it's just an honor to have you in person.

You're like me,

You're a meditation guide on Insight Timer,

And you're a very popular meditation guide as well,

With over 1 million listens,

Which is just phenomenal.

Thank you.

Yeah,

And I just love your voice.

It's just fantastic.

It's so melodious.

To me,

It's like the voice of milk and honey,

If you don't mind that.

Oh,

That's lovely.

Indeed.

But tell me,

Have you always been a meditator?

Have you always meditated since you were a child,

Or when did you get into it?

You know,

That's such a great question because I have been a meditator since I was a child,

Only in written form.

I've been a writer and a journaler my whole life,

And so I have sort of a writing meditation that I do every day in addition to my traditional meditation.

But I didn't really have a formal introduction to meditation until undergraduate school and college,

And it was exactly what you would think.

I showed up to someone's private home,

And there was a guru seated on a cushion in the middle of the living room kind of thing.

Wow.

That was completely intimidating.

And because it was so intimidating,

Lovely.

I mean,

It really resonated with me on a very deep level,

But I thought that was the only way you could meditate is on a cushion with exotic robes and,

You know,

Foreign mantras,

Those kinds of things.

So I just dabbled in meditation for a long time,

And it wasn't until I actually found guided visualization,

Because I do make a distinction between visualization and meditation,

And it wasn't until I found visualization that I actually became more serious and committed to a meditation practice.

For people that don't know,

What is the difference then between a meditation and a guided visualization?

Because on Insight Timer,

You can use the timer function,

Which is a bell and then silence and another bell,

Or you can listen to someone like us who will take people in various directions.

So what is the difference then between a meditation in your view and a guided visualization?

Well,

Quite often those terms are used interchangeably,

And I've used them interchangeably myself.

And on Insight Timer,

There is a woman who has a podcast,

Mada Dalyan,

Who does a very nice explanation of her sense of the difference between the two,

But she talks more about meditation.

She has a very succinct way of saying,

Meditation observes the mind and visualization engages the mind.

Oh,

That's lovely.

Yeah,

And I think that's very accurate.

For me,

Though,

Guided visualization,

For me it acted as a bridge in the beginning,

Because I had a very hard time sitting in silence with just me,

Because I kept showing up and that was uncomfortable.

Well,

I wouldn't mind if your voice kept popping up in my head.

Thank you for that.

Lots of chatter,

Right?

You know,

And all our neuroses tend to show up in live and in color.

And for me,

I am a,

I tend to feel things in images.

So sitting in silence was very difficult for me.

And when I was introduced to guided visualization,

Being able to engage my intellectual mind in a story like you and I've talked about really kept my intellectual mind busy so that my soul,

My intuition could rise up and be in silence with me.

So that was very powerful.

And then once I started realizing that I felt called to create guided visualizations.

Now,

Creating guided visualizations is my art and meditation is my practice.

I love it.

So do you use,

Do you bootstrap up when you're writing one of your guided visualizations,

Do you meditate to actually get the words and the script and everything for the guided visualization.

You know,

I don't I have my practice while either meditate morning and night or,

You know,

Kind of always in the morning.

That's kind of my routine.

But guided visualizations tend to come through me,

I think,

Fairly very similarly to you because I know in your interview with Andy Hobson,

You mentioned that quite often listeners will come back to you and they'll say,

Oh,

In this particular meditation,

I loved how you talked about X,

Y,

And Z.

And you're kind of thinking,

I don't remember that at all.

That happens to me as well.

Where people say,

Oh,

I love this line where you say X,

Y,

And Z.

And I'll think,

I don't remember that.

But yeah,

I'm glad you enjoyed it.

So for me,

It's really an energy starts to shift for me.

And and like I said,

I feel an images,

Which I know is kind of a strange thing.

But but something will happen where I will an image will show up for me and I will feel it somewhere.

And then I'll sit down at the computer,

Close my eyes and type by feel,

You know,

Just just let the words come.

And that's pretty much how they show up.

And you also use sometimes use background music.

I listened to one of yours this morning to tune me in before we did this this interview.

And that was just your voice,

Which is which is lovely.

But sometimes you use background music.

How do you sort of choose the music?

How do you choose when to use music or not music?

Not using music is is new for me.

I'm just experimenting with that.

So I so much of this time for me is intuitive because as I thought about talking with you today and trying to articulate what it is I do and how I do it,

It's it's a challenge.

So much of it is is I just go by feel.

I feel I just go by intuition.

It just there's no real rhythm or I shouldn't say there's not a rhythm.

There's no real formula to what I do or how I do it.

And so sometimes I feel like there is an energy in the recording that if I lay music on top of it will be lost.

So I've just started experimenting with allowing that to be the voice just to be raw.

And I struggle with that because in terms of the technology,

Sometimes I have a difficult time editing just because I'm not very tech savvy.

So having no having no music can be tricky sometimes in terms of editing.

But choosing the music I use,

Of course,

Christopher Lloyd Clark,

Who just creates beautiful things.

And I just tend to listen to his volume of work.

And at some point,

One of the pieces will click that it is the right energy.

I've been observing some of your meditations and also some of the ones that get listened to the most.

And I think it's quite bizarre that,

You know,

We talk about meditation as awakening the mind and as awakening consciousness is getting us to a new place.

I thought it was quite curious that the meditations,

It's not just your meditations as other people in such time,

The ones that seem to get the most listens are the ones that send people to sleep,

Which is kind of weird.

Just look at your observations on that one.

Isn't that interesting?

I you know,

I think it really speaks to what's happening in the world right now that people are not sleeping well.

They're not resting well.

There's too much,

Maybe sensory overload.

And I and again,

I think it does come back to this idea of engaging the intellectual mind in such a way that the spirit and the soul have room to breathe.

Right.

I think sometimes meditation coming into this place of pure silence,

It's just it's such a challenge because there is this cacophony of of stimuli in the world around us constantly.

And so I think the idea of a soothing voice,

Beautiful music,

Lulling us into sleep,

Almost like babes in the womb again,

You know,

To to be in this quiet,

Soft space.

And yet our intellectual mind can't can't pull us out of it because the speaker is telling us a story that we can be drawn into,

Like our apparent reading a child to sleep or something,

You know.

So it's this idea that so many people need help to sleep is interesting.

And so I guess it doesn't matter then,

Does it?

If if you approach meditation from a purest perspective,

You know,

With the bell and the silence and the birch twigs on the back of the legs,

If you get it wrong and that kind of stuff,

Or you get into meditation because you're curious and you're exploring a spiritual path,

Or you get into meditation because you're stressed or you can't sleep.

It doesn't matter what gets you in.

And there seems to be just the most amazing spread of stuff.

I mean,

I like just listening to some ambient music despite itself.

So does it matter?

In your view,

How people meditate or is it just more important that they do meditate every day and have the practice that suits them?

I really believe it's whatever supports you to be your best self and to set to show up in a very grounded and open hearted way,

Whatever,

Whatever that is that supports you and moves you into that place.

And and that might be sort of blasphemous,

But but I am not calling a truthfully not qualified to speak about it because I like you have had no formal training.

I'm not a I've never attended sessions.

I had that one initial introduction for two hours in college.

And other than that,

It has been purely a journey of finding my own way and encouraging others to do the same.

And I think,

Again,

The goal is to to be more comfortable and more authentic in the world.

And whatever that takes,

However you get there,

That's the point,

Right?

That's what matters.

And you know,

Nowadays that mindfulness seems to be in vogue.

Again,

I love your views for many people that are new to this whole world.

What's the difference between mindfulness and meditation and the difference between that and mindfulness meditation as a phrase in your view?

Oh,

You know,

I think probably the biggest difference is the approach in the sense that mindfulness meditation,

You know,

It's it's almost like the persona and being fully present with what is not trying to change it,

Not even focused on the silence,

But just being deeply connected and aware with whatever is happening in that moment.

So if you're feeling some emotion or you're annoyed that you're trying to sit down and meditate,

You don't want to,

You know,

Whatever that is,

I think mindfulness,

Mindful meditation is about being in a place to fully embrace exactly what's happening in that moment.

As simple as that.

I think it is.

I think it's very easy to think,

I think it's very easy to be seduced into this idea that meditation,

Even mindfulness is exotic or should be mystical when the reality is that it's at it,

You know,

When it's at its best,

This idea of sitting and being with yourself and whatever is,

Is magical and mystical in and of itself.

It's not that the skies will open and heaven,

You know,

Rays of light come down and angels sing and all those,

Although those things can happen certainly by creating that space.

But I think it's,

It's a disservice to think that mindfulness and meditation has to be complicated or profound as an intention,

Because it's,

It is mystical and magical and profound in its simplicity.

I don't even know if that makes sense.

I'm sorry.

No,

Maybe that's not this,

This,

This nuances of deep wisdom in there.

Maybe this could be the subject of one of your next visualizations as an exploration.

So,

Looking at this whole thing from a very high vantage point,

You know,

You heard of the helicopter view and the rocket view and so imagine we're in the International Space Station looking down on these seven or more billion people with this most amazing capability,

You know,

So,

If we believe the scientists what's happened is various stars have grown exploded and then heavy metals have coalesced and may form planets and others.

And on these planets,

I'm sure it's not just Earth,

There are,

There are living things.

And this this living being which which is the human has developed this amazing self awareness and the ability to think,

Which is,

Which is magically think about it.

So for exploded stardust to coalesce and think and look back at itself is quite magical.

Why do you think then,

In this day and age,

This very complicated thinking seems to require meditation as a way of helping maybe the overthinking is it just gone too far are we thinking too much.

Big question long question to apologize about that.

It is a big question.

It is a big question and,

You know,

I'm not sure I'm smart enough to answer.

But what I what I can share with you again is how I feel about it and how I feel about it is that we,

I think,

I don't know,

As human beings,

There is this maybe a in the past,

A sort of leaning away or or cocooning away from emotion and,

You know,

The rigor of protocols and societal norms and those things that sort of became more and more extreme and more and more boxy and and even as even though they're very fluid and can shift,

You know,

In the United States,

You know,

Now feels very different than the sixties or the seventies or,

You know,

Those those kinds of things.

So there's that there's a flexibility that happens,

But there are still these constraints around compartmentalizing and labeling labeling.

That's a really big one and I think it keeps us as human beings from from from being fluid with our emotions and our thoughts and if we make a statement,

We're held to it for the rest of our lives as opposed to being able to say I feel and think this.

And then as I gather more information and I I learn more and I'm exposed to more and open my own mind in my own heart,

I want to be allowed to be able to change my opinion.

You know,

I want to be able to to move that statement aside and draw a new one and I think we forget that as human beings,

We are so multifaceted that we don't let each other show up in that way.

You know,

We label and we box as opposed to showing up like diamonds with all these facets and colors and sparkle.

I don't know if that answers your question.

No,

That's fabulous insight.

Thank you.

And in the way you now showed up then.

So what is your that first meditation session with the Guru sitting on the on the couch?

Did you ever imagine you going to show up as a as a meditation guide with this such a great following?

Oh,

No,

No,

You know,

Because,

You know,

To your point in terms of do we overthink?

I think we do.

I think we do overthink.

And the whole reason I showed up at that meditation session then in college was I was just in so much intellectual pain.

You know,

I just couldn't turn my brain off and I felt and have always felt that the world is too loud,

Too fast,

Too bright.

And so this whole journey has been about me just trying to cope with life and learn how to be in the world as an openhearted being as opposed to feeling like I'm constantly ducking cover.

So my intuition is that I had a lovely chap on the on the zone.

She's been on a couple of times.

I think he's got a few of his songs on in such time and Joseph Emmett.

And he says,

Thinking is the brain talking and meditation is the brain listening.

And so and whether you're thinking,

Whether you're talking out loud or in labs,

As I like to say.

So rather than me rattling on and you rattling on in conversation,

My intuition is that we should actually lead the listeners into guided visualization right now.

And you very kindly offered to do one live,

Which is just fantastic.

And I'm just going to say to anyone that's driving at the moment,

It's not a good idea to drive fly a jumbo jet or operate machinery while you're listening to meditation.

So when we pull over or pause and Bethany,

The floor is yours.

Thank you.

And as we laughingly said earlier,

We'll just see what shows up.

And if nothing does,

Then the cool thing is you have recordings to draw from.

Of course,

It'd be seamless.

Nobody will know.

Wonderful.

Wonderful.

So we'll begin.

And so wherever you are in this moment,

Allow yourself to settle and find a place of comfort.

So just kind of check in.

Taking nice,

Easy breath.

As you listen in this moment,

If you can feel my joy at being here with you,

Breathing together,

Connected in this moment so easily through time and space.

And on your next breath,

See if you can let your shoulders drop just a little bit.

Just notice where your breath goes.

As you inhale.

Allow your hips to drop into the support beneath you.

And on your next exhale,

Imagine that you are exhaling any tension or stress.

Allowing your body to become like a sponge,

Soaked and wet and heavy.

Deep,

Easy breaths,

The body heavy.

Sinking into the support beneath you.

And bring your attention to your hips and the pelvic area and imagine a hot red light.

Just this nice,

Deep,

Fiery red.

Warm.

Feeling grounded.

But energized.

Imagine that this heat and this fire is connected to the earth beneath you.

Beating and kind of thrumming with the same energy that is at the core of the earth.

Elemental and powerful and strong.

Feel your thighs relax as this heat moves into your lower body,

Stronger and deeper into the earth's core.

Connecting with that energy.

There is a primal creative energy happening here.

This exchange between you being grounded and the earth being firing and powerful.

And just hold there for a moment in that heat.

Knowing you are safe and grounded.

Knowing that it is safe to be powerful and confident.

Breathing deeply into that warmth and red light.

Honoring this primal elemental flame that is power and life.

And know that you can carry this energy with you always and use it in a powerful and good way as you move through the day.

Now begin to notice your breath.

And imagine that breath becoming very cool and soothing.

As you breathe in,

Feel that air at the back of your throat.

And imagine that cool air moving through your entire body.

Each breath moving down into the body,

Hips cooling and soothing while maintaining that deep earth connection.

Body beginning to feel lighter with each cool,

Refreshing breath.

And on your next breath,

Cool and icy,

Wiggle your fingers and your toes coming fully present and aware.

And when you are ready,

You can open your eyes feeling grounded and refreshed.

How wonderful,

It is a real joy and honor to see you do that live.

Fantastic.

So we have been talking about you as a meditation guide but that is just one dimension to your work,

Isn't it?

What else do you offer and how else do you serve?

You know,

I am a trained life coach,

A certified life coach and I actually am transitioning out of that.

It is almost entirely recordings at this point.

And you know,

Do some more meditation oriented that have a lot of silence and a lot of visualization ones for helping people bridge that gap and tap into their intuition and creative powers.

We've talked about the zone.

So I have to say I am actually in the process of revamping my website where I will not be doing any more coaching.

It will be recording exclusively.

Isn't that funny because I am in the same boat.

I got discovered by Insight Timer about 18 months ago and I thought I was an author who did some meditations as accessories on the side.

And then the meditations weren't that bad.

They were kind of neat.

But I primarily was an author and last year I planned not to write a book but a publisher approached me so I wrote one anyway.

But this year I am just thinking of doing just sets of meditations that help people in certain situations and almost make them the authoring.

So isn't that funny that our paths have just intertwined at this point when that transition has been superimposed on top of us?

Yeah.

I have to tell you,

Say though Tom,

I've listened to several of your interviews and your website is such a wealth of resource.

And I just think it's such an incredible place to go and be fed.

It really,

Really is.

And you have a real gift though for interviewing people and I am not a good example.

So as you're listening to this,

Please know that I was a poor subject.

But Tom is very good.

I am loving this.

But you have a real gift there so I hope you will continue to do that as well.

Why thank you.

I have got the shows I have booked up for about three months from now and some wonderful guests turning up.

And more and more people that are in this whole mindfulness camp.

But people that seem to be doing something with mindfulness which goes way beyond just sitting on a couch having a nice few minutes.

To me there seems to be a force in the world at the moment where there is loads of negative stuff going on in the news.

I don't want to bother watching it.

And loads of that going on.

But at the same time there is loads of people just getting on with stuff,

Creating new awakenings for everybody.

I know that it is very important that we have good sleep.

So to be vibrant and alive when we are awake we need to sleep well.

So that is why those sleep meditations are so popular I guess.

But there seems to be so many people that are doing some great work right now by tapping into this other level of consciousness.

Right across all the planes in arts,

In culture,

In science and all things eco and that sort of stuff.

So it is wonderful that we have been dragged into that whole world.

Because I certainly didn't plan it and I know you didn't either by the sound of things.

I know.

And it is such a.

.

.

I took a seminar a few years ago with a woman named Gail Larson who is.

.

.

Her gift is really helping people find their voice.

She does speaking coaching.

And kind of off the cuff she made this comment that has literally become my daily mantra.

It is what roots me in the work.

And it is this.

.

.

All she said off the cuff on this webinar was,

You know,

Do what is yours in the world to do.

It is just so profound.

It is funny how a single comment from someone will just really stick.

You know,

I think that is one of the things I think of in terms of,

You know,

You might say something off hand to somebody in an elevator.

You have no idea how it is going to change their life.

But that one statement for me is just do what is yours in the world to do.

And I think to your point more and more of us are saying,

You know what,

I am getting rid of all the distractions and I am going to do what I feel called to do.

I am going to answer that call.

And more and more of us are coming together which I think,

You know,

That it has that synchronistic reverberation.

You know,

That it expands and grows and draws more of us into the work we are meant to do in the world.

And what a powerful thing.

And my God,

It is going to change the world.

Well,

I think you just created the title of your next guided visualization.

That would be a fantastic one to riff from,

Wouldn't it?

Doing the world what you came here to do.

Yeah.

And obviously when that happens,

You end up in a different place,

Don't you?

Life doesn't become so difficult anymore.

No,

And it is really,

I was thinking this morning you have a,

When you were talking with Bridget Mayer,

You said a couple of things that really resonated with me.

One of them was talking about magic.

And I was thinking about what,

You know,

That word kind of gets tossed about and you treat it with real reverence but a practical sort of sense to it.

You are very pragmatic about magic which I really love.

But I was thinking this morning,

You know,

Magic is really that point for me where passionate commitment meets surrender.

You know,

There is that point where you just say,

I am so committed to this.

I am utterly devoted to it and I am going to let go of any expectations around it.

Well,

You know,

You just described something which I have been working on recently and it is the synthesis of male and female magics.

And I am a great student of the Tarot and in the Tarot there are two cards.

One is the Magician card and the other is the High Priestess card.

And the Magician card is the male magic that does stuff,

If you like,

Commands the four elements and the four planes and this sort of stuff.

And the High Priestess is the acceptor and the receiver.

And when you merge those two together in the form that you just mentioned,

You end up in this new synthesis of magic,

Which is the best of male magic.

The best of female magic and a new level of stuff where all sorts of things unfold.

I think the drummer of the doors said that magic doesn't come from you,

It comes through you.

Yes.

That is so interesting that that is kind of how you ended up working.

Yes,

Absolutely.

And I am so excited,

Tom.

And I think you feel this energy too,

That there is a new iteration,

A new evolution of your work happening where you really are distilling it down to its purest,

Most magical,

Spiritual,

Divine space.

And I think that is exciting.

I feel that happening for myself as well.

Yes,

But also having fun at the same time.

Oh,

Yes.

And not trying to create any cult or guru-dharm or anything like that.

And I have never studied with anyone.

I have never had a guru or a teacher.

I have never felt called that way.

I mean,

I do a lot of reading.

I did more in the self-help kind of genre years ago.

I have never had a teacher or anything like that or a guru.

And I do feel like,

Yes,

It is not about…there is really this essence of each of us adding our voice to the choir.

And one of the things that is great about the Insight Timer app is if you have got a mobile phone,

A smartphone or a tablet,

You have got a guru in your pocket,

Haven't you?

Which is just there.

And you have not just got you and I,

But some amazing people in there.

There is a lovely lady whose name escapes me who is Finnish.

And I just love listening to her meditation in Finnish that I don't understand a word of.

But whatever wisdom she is channeling is coming across,

Which is just absolutely magical.

Oh,

Yeah.

Yeah.

I know.

It is about the energy,

Isn't it?

I mean,

It really…it is interesting.

Someone just emailed me the other day and said,

Gee,

Could I have a script of that meditation?

I work in a facility,

A treatment facility that helps people with addictions.

And I would love to be able to read that meditation in our group sessions.

And I had to really think about whether or not I would be willing to distribute my scripts.

Because sometimes I don't use scripts,

Sometimes I do.

But the reality is the script is sacred to me because I feel like the art,

The recording is one whole piece.

It is part script,

But it is really about my voice.

It is about my energy.

That is where the magic comes from.

It is that recipe,

You know.

So let me ask you then,

How did you feel about having your meditations translated recently into French,

Spanish,

Portuguese and Chinese?

Because that is like giving your script to someone else to speak,

Isn't it?

Exactly.

Exactly.

So I had sort of the initial…and this goes to one of the things you and Bridgette were talking about around success and stress.

And,

You know,

Sometimes success is very stressful.

And so there was that initial reaction of wanting to be a success and that being that having my meditations translated into other languages kind of as a marker of,

Wow,

That is successful,

Right?

That means I am successful because they are translated.

The reality is they are not very popular.

And the ones that have been translated,

They are my most popular ones in English,

But they are not popular in other languages.

And I really think it is because the magic or the power or the…I do not even know what you want to call it.

The value in my work is my voice,

My energy.

Interesting.

So I do not know,

How are yours doing?

I noticed… The same,

Yeah.

But having said that,

I do like listening to the French version of Tom.

I think he has got a very sexy voice.

But no,

I think that I was in exactly the same mode.

I thought,

Do you want to do this?

Well,

It is good to do it because it is supporting the community in where it is going.

It is also probably because there is not that many non-English language people on the app.

So it is early days for this as well.

It is a great honour to do and a great initiative.

Well,

I think we need to have this conversation at least once every year.

So where are you feeling you might be heading over the next…I do not call them years.

I call them rotations of the sun.

And so,

You know,

We go half a billion miles together on spaceship Earth together.

I always think that if we are on the spaceship Earth and going half a billion miles together,

We all ought to get on.

So where do you think you might be in a year's time?

Oh,

You know,

It is interesting.

I am in a place of surrender right now.

I just really,

I do not know.

I am breathing into that space of what is unknown and being comfortable there.

And it is interesting because I was thinking about,

You know,

My future self in terms of just,

You know,

You can let me know.

It is all good.

But I know that my work has sort of one more evolution.

Obviously,

Through my whole life,

I plan to do this until the day I drop dead.

It will continue to evolve.

But there is definitely,

In terms of getting to the core of what it is I am going to be offering for the rest of my life,

The basic framework,

I guess,

For lack of a better way to phrase it.

There is one more iteration,

Tom,

That is coming,

One more evolution of how I produce,

How I contribute to the world.

And so I am kind of in the midst of that right now.

And I do not know,

A year from now,

What I hope is that I hope that I am just even more deeply connected to what flows through me to bring more peace into the world.

Wow.

Phenomenal.

Let me throw something at you then,

Because as you know,

These things are not scripted and I like you just receive stuff.

So I have just completed my first co-creation project with a lovely chap who is also on Insight Climate called Ludwig Cymbrelius,

Who goes under the name of Eternal.

And he has just written some very special music for me.

And I have been commissioned by a company in the States to record some weight loss meditation,

Or meditations to aid with the weight loss process,

Which I have just done.

And so there is a co-creation which came out of a meeting through Insight Climate,

Which is great.

And I am just going to leave this because I do not even know this is possible.

What would happen if our two voices met on the same meditation?

Oh,

That is wonderful.

Isn't it?

And even better than the voices,

The energy.

That would be fabulous.

Exactly.

Then you get that male and female magic synthesis,

Didn't you?

So I will just throw that down as a little gauntlet and then even when it happens,

Because we will both allow it to happen or not happen,

We will come back on the show and talk about it.

How does that sound?

Oh,

Fabulous.

I think that is exactly right.

Definitely.

Good stuff.

Well,

Listen,

Just let people know where to find you,

Both on Insight Timer and on the web.

Yes.

So you can find me on Insight Timer at InsightTimer.

Com slash CrystalTreeRoad.

And you can find me on the web at www.

CrystalTreeRoad.

Com.

And I must ask you,

Why Crystal Tree Road?

Ah,

Yes.

So when I first started my guided visualization practice,

My own meditation practice,

The image that was most helpful to me in terms of grounding and also feeling connected to the Divine Source,

That sort of all-powerful energy that is in the world,

Was to envision that I was a tree made entirely of quartz crystal.

So crystal puts down into the earth,

Crystal limbs reaching up into the heavens,

And energy flowing through me from both,

Like a bridge.

That's kind of how it works.

And then of course the road is always about the journey,

Right?

I am,

You know,

I'm a baby soul.

I kind of think of myself,

I love these people that say,

Oh,

I'm an old soul,

You know,

And I think,

Good for you,

Because I am a baby.

I am kicking and screaming and wailing all the time trying to figure it out.

I've had loads and loads of people say to me,

You're a real soul.

Well,

I've got no idea how many soledoms I've had and all that sort of stuff.

Well,

Listen,

It's been a joy and a pleasure to spend time with you and to meet you at last as well,

Having heard you for so many years now.

I feel like you are an old soul.

I've known you for ages,

But I suspect and I hope this is the last time we speak on The Zone Show and we may even end up doing some co-creation.

That would be such fun.

I would love that.

It's been such a joy,

Tom,

I do feel like we've been connected for so long and yet finally now we've brought it,

You know,

We've grounded it into the face to face,

Which is fabulous.

So thank you.

So we must thank the wonderful people at Insight Timer because without Christopher Plowman,

Without Nico,

Without Maddie,

We wouldn't be having this conversation.

And so many people wouldn't be chilling out as much as they are now.

Yeah,

Insight Timer,

What a gift to me and to the world.

Insight Timer truly has been a pivotable,

Just this incredible catalyst for not only my work,

But my soul development.

So grateful to Insight Timer.

And we should also say for anyone who's listened to this podcast that's never crawled across Insight Timer is that Insight Timer is free and we don't get paid a penny for the stuff that we put up there.

Yes,

That's exactly right.

And that's the whole,

And we're very happy with that and it's the whole spirit of where we come all the way from.

Yes,

Definitely.

That's fantastic.

Great.

We'll speak again soon.

Yes.

It's been a joy and a pleasure and wish you even more success for all the stuff that's coming through.

Thank you,

Tom.

Take care.

So thanks for listening to The Zone Show.

And if you want to find my meditations on Insight Timer,

That's insighttimer.

Com slash tom evans and come to my website,

Www.

Tomevans.

Co,

For loads of books and resources on how to get in and stay in The Zone.