Facing The Pandemic With The Support Of The Dharma 20/26

Welcome to this session.

It's time for questions,

Feedback.

Again,

I can say that it's a very.

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It's a very important time for the exploration,

The instructions that were given last time are,

In many places,

In contradiction with those who were given before.

And.

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So,

How to understand how this works together?

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There's some room for really.

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Thinking about it and trying to understand.

And also,

A time for your feedback of how,

What happened during these laying downs,

Did you notice anything?

What's so,

What your feedback means a lot for everybody?

So,

Just if you have any.

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.

If you had anything a little bit striking or that you find interesting,

Just giving this to the group is very precious.

So,

Questions,

Feedback,

Feedback from,

Also if you sense these moments,

If you could take these moments of just sitting and doing nothing for a few minutes,

How was it,

What happened?

Yeah,

All that is very.

.

.

Interesting and important for the dynamic to share.

Yes,

Eka.

Hi.

Hi.

Thank you.

Yeah,

What I,

What I wanted to share is that I,

I did lay down meditation every day with the.

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Guided by you this time,

Every time I did it.

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And every time was completely different.

And I found that very interesting,

The first time was a,

Like a,

Very visual,

With all kinds of images popping up,

Without any specific meaning,

Or at least I didn't understand necessarily what it was or why.

And then,

The other time it was really quiet,

But then all things that came up had to do with real life,

With now,

Or the day,

And things that are happening.

And I found that very interesting how these,

Like sessions,

Or how these meditation moments completely differ.

Mmm,

Yeah.

And also it,

It made me think whether I maybe,

It had to do with looking for the images before,

And not finding the images in the second time,

And then the other ideas from daily life popped up.

So it,

There is a way of,

Like.

.

.

I try to maybe,

To,

Like put my meditation into certain directions as well.

I'm not sure I got you well,

So do you,

Do you mean that in the beginning you were kind of looking for images and then you stop doing that and something else happened,

Or?

No,

It was like the first time I,

I kind of looked for images,

And I,

And it caught my attention all the time,

And then the second time I went the day after,

I couldn't find any images.

There wasn't any concentration or attention on the images.

Yes,

Uh-huh,

Okay.

Okay,

Yeah.

Yeah,

So what I can relate to from my,

In my experience is the diversity.

I think this meditation probably because there's less control happen in more diverse ways,

Maybe,

Yeah.

It's interesting because in the Dharma techno,

Um,

Crowd when we do this meditation with Dharma techno,

And then very many people have creative visuals,

Very,

And it's interesting how some people never report visuals.

Yeah,

Interesting,

Just because I find this interesting.

Some people think with images and some others with words.

Yeah,

Yeah,

Okay,

Thank you for,

For your sharing.

Yes,

Debbie?

Debbie,

I don't hear you in the.

.

.

Can you hear me now?

Yes.

Okay,

Sorry,

So,

Um,

Yeah,

My camera's not up working,

Which is why I'm in black.

So we've had discussions about this in the past,

Because when I first met you,

Um,

You talked about this lying down meditation,

And I was kind of quite shocked because,

Um,

I come,

Well,

I've done many more retreats,

You know,

Much more,

Um,

So strictly sitting up and no way can you lie down.

We hardly just stretch your legs out and stuff like this.

So,

You know,

It seemed that lying down was like a bit of a lazy option.

Um,

But over the years,

Since,

Um,

I've met you and heard,

You know,

Your teachings about lying down meditation,

I've come to accept it more and really appreciate it.

And,

Um,

Actually during the,

Uh,

Lockdown,

I found myself doing quite some half an hour lying down meditation every day.

And,

Um,

It was really nice,

Actually.

I really enjoyed it.

And then it was good to hear your teaching last,

The other day,

Whenever it was,

Um,

Yes,

I'm definitely becoming,

Coming to appreciate it more and more.

I still find I go into a very dreamy state and I couldn't possibly explain or,

You know,

Raconte what happened or,

You know,

Any particular states I went through,

But I feel that,

Um,

Being a bit of a control freak,

You know,

Quite sort of angle,

Anxious and nervy and all of that.

We feel that it's very helpful actually.

So voila.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Yeah.

I think like,

Uh,

The way you said it was,

Uh,

Kind of interesting that,

Uh,

There was resistance and that's very often like this lying down meditation is not welcome everywhere or by all people in the meditating world.

Um,

There's a lot of ideas around it and conflict.

And,

Um,

And then you had this process of accepting it,

Which is very usual and part of the letting go practice also,

I guess the accepting it is part of the letting go practice.

And then after,

Um,

Yeah,

You said you,

You have some,

Um,

Um,

Kind of daydreams that you can't understand and explain.

And I think that having them there and not trying to understand them in the moment or after also to see like the feeling that,

Oh,

Is it okay to have these things there is part of the laying down practice in some way of the letting go of control practice,

At least to,

To be like trusting that if that come in that moment in that place,

That's fine.

It's,

It's kind of,

It's a very big practice of,

Uh,

Including even restlessness and,

And unpleasant states and things that we're not looking for in the meditation.

And when we're sitting,

We try to avoid and there it's like,

Okay,

It,

It,

It's there.

And,

And even if you don't know why it's there and what it brings and,

Uh,

Yeah,

You just drop at some point,

Uh,

The one thing to understand,

Uh,

Which is in other,

You see,

Like it's very,

It's,

It's interesting to Dharma teaching because trying to explain and understand things is very important and not relying on understanding and not trying to explain things all the time is very important.

So you,

You,

You say both things they are in contradiction,

But both are really like,

It's important.

I think to articulate and trying to understand our experience,

Especially about self knowledge and deepening our experience and understanding of the things that experience,

But it's also important to just be able to accept anything that happened without having to try to understand it,

That it doesn't become a habit or a control something.

Yeah.

So it seems like now you're getting more familiar with having these things that are in some worlds,

Like daydream for instance,

Is the opposite of meditation and some understandings.

Yeah.

Daydream is just like the opposite.

So it's difficult for someone who has long-term practice in sitting posture with a very specific instruction to accept daydream somehow.

And,

Uh,

Yeah,

It seems that,

That you're doing well with that.

It's great to hear.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I have to say,

Um,

Um,

The,

The lying down meditation was my kind of my first fulfilled meditation.

Because,

Uh,

Because every,

Every previous one is,

I had the,

You know,

The problem focusing on the posture and trying to get it right,

To get it comfortable and couldn't do it.

I mean,

I always have problems with postures.

I can't read because of that.

So lying down was very,

Uh,

Very,

Um,

Like,

Um,

Like a fulfillment because,

Uh,

At last I could feel the things that I was supposed to get in touch with in this process.

So,

Um,

So it was very pleasant and,

Uh,

And,

Uh,

I was not tired at all.

So,

Uh,

I didn't have so many daydreams or going to too far without,

Uh,

Noticing.

So it was a,

It was a good part for,

On my side.

Hmm.

Yeah.

Nice.

Nice.

So yeah,

There's two things I want to mention there is,

Um,

Yeah,

This posture,

This posture thing is,

Uh,

For so many people,

It's the posture is a big problem in meditation and,

And the lying down offers a,

Uh,

A kind of an answer to that.

So for some people it,

It,

Um,

Yeah.

If you're not hooked by this image of the Buddha that you want to sit like this at any cost,

Then it's a way for many people.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Again,

We have to bypass this idea that meditation is in this posture.

Yeah.

In the beginning it's like,

Oh,

I'm not really meditating,

But,

Uh,

The feeling is a little bit like this.

What's wrong with the lay down for people just because they are doing the effort to stay seated and they don't want to.

.

.

No,

Because,

Because most of the meditation that we hear about is practicing a technique and in lying down you can't practice a technique somehow.

So this also,

If you keep practicing,

You will see that because now that's the second point you mentioned,

You mentioned like you were not really going away.

Your mind was quite stable,

Not too many daydreams,

Not too much tiredness coming,

No,

Not too much sleep.

So then you have an experience of lying down that looks a little bit like the sitting,

But it's not always like that.

You will have experience of the lying down where it's nothing like the sitting it's only sleep,

Daydream,

And you know,

And then doubt will come.

Yeah.

Here doubt didn't come so much because your experience of the lie down,

What's a little bit,

What you understand that you should search in meditation.

And that's true.

That is what is,

Uh,

Put beforehand,

Uh,

In meditation teachings.

Yeah.

But what I'm saying with the lying down is that there is more to meditation than just clarity,

Presence and concentration.

And there's more to that.

And in the openness of meditation,

There's more.

So you will have moments where in this posture,

You will actually not experience this clarity and openness and doubt may more easily come.

And what's wrong with this posture for others,

Uh,

In some tradition is like some tradition rely only on concentration and,

And,

Uh,

Then,

Uh,

Lying down is not a good posture for concentration.

It may happen naturally that you're there and you're fully concentrated easy,

No effort,

Just,

You don't even know how it come,

It came,

But it's there,

Which is beautiful in the lying down.

It happens in the sitting also,

But bit less or you notice less,

But,

Um,

Uh,

Yeah,

So,

But often you can't really help and you're not in control so much of concentration and many tradition use concentration because they have a technique to apply and to apply any technique,

You need some concentration.

Yeah.

So if you want to practice anything,

You need some concentration.

Lying down is not really practicing something.

It's trusting,

Putting yourself in a situation where you let go and trust.

It's different than just this concept of practicing something.

And then of course,

In the sitting,

You can also sit and have this attitude of not being practicing really something and being fully open.

Yeah,

Of course.

But that's when lying down atmosphere merges with the sitting atmosphere.

Okay.

Yeah.

If I,

If I lie down in this position,

Maybe you think half,

Um,

Okay.

Okay.

Standing up.

Very good.

You,

You should experiment everything and find out for yourself what works and what doesn't work for you.

You will,

You will,

You will definitely notice that when you are not holding the body,

Like you're leaning on the,

On the wall or on the chair or something like this,

Because you're not holding the posture,

You will lose a kind of attentiveness somehow.

Yeah.

Which,

And then,

And then you will,

Uh,

Get more sense of relaxation.

And,

And,

Uh,

So you,

You merging on the other side,

You're going to the other side a little bit of the,

But yeah,

You should experiment or thank you very much.

Yeah.

Thank you,

Tom.

Okay.

So anybody else wants to ask something or share your experience?

There's some more time.

We're on this small group.

So it's not surprised that there's not very much like dynamic,

But if you have any,

Anything that would be,

You think maybe interesting to share with others or I just wait one,

Two minutes.

And if not,

Then that's,

We can definitely go into lying down meditation and enjoy it more.

Yes.

Uh,

Can you hear me?

Yeah.

I just wanted to share that also for me,

Just like Tom,

Uh,

Lying down is actually my main practice.

So,

Um,

And sometimes I do that every day and I didn't,

I wasn't so much aware about what you said last time at this time,

That it is a practice of letting go and that focus is very difficult in this posture.

Um,

So I was always like believing that I can focus and I can,

Um,

Have this strength when I lay down.

Um,

But then when you made us aware of it,

I actually started this week to experience a lot more of this,

Um,

Letting go in a sense that my mind would wander around,

Not always to bless and praise places.

So I was kind of like starting to lose control over a practice that I thought I know well,

Because my,

My focus or my,

My view on that practice changed.

So I thought that was very interesting.

Yeah.

So,

Uh,

I'm curious to know what before you were lying down and you felt that you were able to conduce your meditation.

Yeah.

Okay.

So how was it?

What,

What,

What were you doing?

Before you mean?

Yes.

Um,

Just everything that I knew from your teachings and from Dharma techno,

Like everything that I know about,

I,

I did the same thing,

But lying down and I just felt very secure about doing it in a different posture.

And then it brought some amount of healthy doubts this week to,

To think about how much this makes your mind wander.

Okay.

Okay.

Interesting.

And so did you try sitting a little bit or?

I,

Yeah,

That's what I was doing this week.

So I,

I lying down as usual,

But then I also started to sit to actually feel the difference and then actually could really see how much of a different it makes.

Did you see any difference or you will,

You,

You saw more clarity and more sharpness in the city?

Yes,

I was sitting,

Doing sitting meditations,

But a lot shorter because I have some back pain in short periods.

I could already,

I could already see how different it is from my usual practice of lying down.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And it's a lot more like,

Um,

Yeah,

There's a lot more focus and less daydreaming.

And for me,

Daydreaming when I'm stressed and I have a lot of work to do,

Then it is wandering to like very difficult places sometimes that you don't want to have in your meditation.

So it was actually good for me to,

Um,

Do both this week.

Okay.

Okay.

Yeah.

It's good that you see the distinction and,

And in your experience,

Because sometimes some people tell me that in lying down,

They can concentrate very well.

It's quite true.

It's more rare,

But like,

Of course there's always like,

Um,

Some difference in between,

Between us very much.

So yeah,

It's,

It's important anyway,

At the end that everybody tries and see how it works.

It's more generalities that I'm saying.

Yeah.

But,

Uh,

Uh,

Yes.

Good.

Nice to hear.