Let You Guide You With Chelsea Leigh Trescott

Thank you so much for joining us.

I'm gonna say a special thank you this week for joining us at the very super last minute Grief growers,

You know that I do this podcast a little bit in advance not super crazy,

But Chelsea agreed to fill in after a previous interview fell through and this has just been such a godsend I have been reading her work on Huffington Post and following her on Thank you heartbreak on Instagram.

And so I'm really excited to get into Your lost story first which I'll ask that you start off with your lost story and then kind of how you got to a space Where you are thanking heartbreak for existing Wow You know,

It's so crazy because since I do do deal with breakups It's almost as if my lost story has to kind of just begin there But when I'm more really honest about it or at least honest with myself about it I think that the lost story of mine started when I left for college for the first time and you know had to I didn't realize how important my reputation was to me and I was there and completely I felt like alone and I was you know I it was the first time that I really isolated myself and felt the pressure to kind of live up to people's expectations of who they thought I was because I had like these live journals at the time people had read a lot about me and I felt like I wasn't gonna satisfy who the image was in their mind and I ended up isolating myself for the first time in my life.

They called me like the unicorn in her cave and I was really I was in Boston I'd never I didn't get accepted into the school in New York that later I got accepted to but I was always Bussing myself out to New York and I had a long-distance relationship and kind of fast-forward.

We broke up halfway through my first year and I felt like it was the first time I had fallen out of conversation with anyone I had no conversation in my life and I felt like if I wasn't growing on a If I wasn't growing an insight I felt deep shame about that and I started to feel the pressure of summer coming the first year back wanting to show up as a new person with something to show for herself and Experiences and life and friends and I had none of that and I decided that for the first time in seven years I would take care of the issue I had surrounding you know my body and loss was one things one thing was a loss of a role and I had been a model when I was young and It wasn't really the modeling it was just that it was me having something in my life that came naturally to me that I didn't feel I had to work for that like I In a way that like what it was easy for me I never had to think about my body like other other people and therefore I was really unrelatable and I ended up gaining 15 pounds in a month and everything changed after that.

I became so self-conscious so self-critical so my lost story really began with deciding I was going to take care of this issue that I had with my weight thinking about it every other minute and that's a real thing and when I didn't have a relationship and Fast forward I ended up being 83 pounds.

It happened so quickly and I realized that I ended up feeling like Maybe if I had been in a relationship Then I would have had more self-respect and never would have let that happen and a best friend of mine And it ended up becoming my boyfriend and really protecting me From what I was going through and my father at the time Who was really stung because he always saw me as a fearless person and what happened was is You know,

He protected me and I ended up thinking that in order to protect myself against Loneliness and starting over new cities because I ended up moving multiple multiple times that I always had to have a long-distance relationship to protect myself from myself and It wasn't until I went to grad school with a different relationship and I was I had a nonfiction thesis and I ended up you know reading about overcoming my eating disorder and Found out the next day when I finally saw a psychiatrist I was so depressed and he said I can't help you your anorexic and I said I'm not I swear I've been anorexic before I'm not I need help I'm so depressed and he put me on a scale and he showed me that you know,

I was 100 pounds It wasn't 83 pounds,

But it was 100 and was humiliating It was humiliating that I had a boyfriend that never said anything that I was speaking to overcoming my eating disorder And I didn't look like I was someone that had overcome anything at all And it was coming full circle from undergrad to graduate school Realizing that I'd really ended up in the same place was gonna have to move home be around my father when I looked You know skeletal again and so lost for me was it was loss of an idea I had about myself and my potential what came naturally to me and then trying to Fill over that and protect myself through having several back-to-back long-distance relationships to protect me when I went to these new cities and I was fearful really of isolation and What happened was I used these relationships?

Thinking that they would help me in the meantime as I make friends and I never did and I isolated myself further so it's really been about loss of time loss of self-respect loss of really the way I saw myself literally and figuratively and Because of the situation that I got myself in Where I felt like it was out of my control in a sense that I didn't starve myself But now I looked the same I realized I really needed to I needed to be a breakup coach because I needed to learn when to break up with people when it was breaking my own heart and I needed to learn how to break up with the shame that I had surrounding how I had spent those years and And really put to bed who I was at 10 years old and who I was as a model So I think that's kind of the lost story in a way.

I Love hearing this because in circles of loss and other podcasts regarding loss there's How am I gonna phrase this there's losses that you expect there's conventional losses quote unquote There's you know death of course is the biggest one divorce or breaking up as another one and then diagnosis is like another thing that changes people's lives and really turns them on their head and One of the things that I speak about on a regular basis on this podcast is what are called secondary losses or invisible Losses or layered losses,

But the things that we experience that break us that you can't See on the surface and they ripple out and affect your life just like these,

You know conventional or expected losses but They're invisible to people that you that don't know you're going through them and a lot of people could put mental illness into this category as well But the things that you listed off I wrote down loss of identity I wrote down loss of connection because despite making all these connections.

There's still a core Disconnection to who you are as a person loss of time and loss of self-respect and these are all Losses that are just as valid as these other huge losses that are physically visible so I guess first how did you establish credibility for yourself as a breakup coach Having all of these losses kind of tumbling around in your history and in your present I love you for that and putting me on the spot because I think I should be this is the show for that People always,

You know the first question is so this means that you're really good at breaking up and the truth was I Wasn't in the past good at breaking up.

I wasn't good at Trusting my intuition and doing it when I when I needed to I always thought I needed to buy myself more time In order to become stronger in order to do it and I think that you're never really ready for for these big transitions and for loss,

You know,

And So one way that I think that I have credibility around it is I'm really able to speak to people about the pain and I think that people come to me I thought I was gonna be a clinical psychologist.

That's how I came back to New York and I realized that for me,

You know I pulled out of that program and people come to me for a human experience not for a clinical experience and I'm really able to offer someone and hold space with someone in a human way Because I can relate so much and I've been so honest in writing especially and in person in dialogue About what I put myself through not just what I'm really know what other people put me through But what I put myself through so that's one way that there's credibility because I've done it to myself And then the thing that happened was my twin sister when I graduated from my masters She went into rehab and this crop this broken this take took me to my knees took me to my knees But it saved my life She took a bullet for the whole family and she enabled me to be so honest about how unhappy I've been is I grew up with a father that was always a static every morning and from a young age told me that people that were tired were depressed so I lived in fear of being tired and her going to rehab enabled me to be honest about really what my days were like what my days were like which was usually nothing and from that experience I was gifted time and honesty to Begin changing the way that I think and you know,

I brought books into my life and so I had this experience of going through my sister's recovery and being involved in family recovery and Enabling myself at a time when I was in a bad relationship.

I'd lost all this weight again.

I was severely depressed I was addicted to Adderall to Begin recovering and for me.

Everything's been a slow journey.

It has never been overnight So when I moved back to New York City,

I knew that after so many moves I didn't opportunity to do what I knew I needed to do which was and again gain credibility within my own self That I could do what I knew I had to do that I could trust that I would take care of myself and the voice inside of me said do not get into another long-distance Relationship these if you do that,

You'll deprive yourself of connection in real time you will rely on talking to one person instead of any person and So I learned I I kept my promise.

I knew I had one chance I really felt like it was the last chance I had for myself to really believe I could I could take care of myself And I said I had to learn How to not do what I've always done and to go back out into the world and reintroduce myself And I was very shaky at that time.

I because I had been in isolation for so long I didn't know how to speak to people and I really mean this it surprises people but I had a stutter I was very I was very fearful very panicked.

It was scary to feel like you had lost What was so natural people what people knew you as I thought for so long?

I was never gonna get that part of me back and that was grief so anyways,

I Wasn't in a long-distance relationship.

I was single for the first time and It was about like a year and a half and I felt like I had never been so in love So I put myself not only through like,

You know this breakup that I actually Shockingly,

It was so much easier to overcome once I finally let it go I say that the only thing worse than a a breakup is the anticipation of a breakup.

Oh god.

Yeah yeah,

So that was something that really wowed me and And that it was staying single.

So I got really good at being single and being able to for the first time Lead myself into my own life And that's why I think also gives me an enormous amount of credibility as a breakup coach and then recently,

You know My ex-boyfriend wrote into my advice column.

We ended up dating wild story and I knew at a certain point It was something that I never thought about is that I always thought on a gut level if you feel like you need to break up with someone and You you feel that and you need to do it,

Right?

I never thought about if you had information that told you it would never work out And if you didn't pay attention to that how you could it how it could eat you alive and in this relationship I never fell out of love with him.

I Loved him up until that very last moment.

Even now I love him,

But I had information that told me I would be foolish to think that it ever Could we could ever take each other into the future?

And so there was credibility for me and for really the first time breaking up when I knew I needed to and I've I've put myself through it and I and I see that I've kept my word Can you speak more on the difference between?

Information and intuition.

Oh my god yeah,

So well Intuition for me is like,

You know,

It's just it's you know,

It's your own wisdom I think that there's always a good something within us that's nudging us in a certain direction I feel like I used to think is everyone talking to themselves inside and I think that maybe we are but for me I know for sure that there's always a narration going on and there's There was always just an inner wisdom and an intuition now when you deprive yourself of listening to it it becomes Kind of a bodily reaction and it becomes for me,

You know,

When I when I disregarded my intuition That's how I ended up back at a hundred pounds,

You know,

You know became we're talking about invisible Well,

You know invisible losses will invisibly intuition is invisible if you don't pay attention to it I created a visible it,

You know reality for people to see I'm actually going For me for me the eating disorder actually needed to be a visible thing because for seven years everyone thought I was healthy I was thinking about my weight every other moment.

So for me,

It was like everyone thinks I'm so good Even if I write and say I'm not that they in order to believe me they have to see it I have to actually be a problem.

I can't just pontificate about it I have to look like a problem these people can't stand Seeing something they can hear it,

But they can't stand seeing it So I think that when you disregard an intuition would become what starts as insight into yourself on a character level When you disregard it It becomes something that other people can see and there's a discomfort is they can see it before you are allowing yourself to see it And then the other thing is is information so information you're gathering,

You know,

You're learning about someone through a relationship You're asking questions.

They're telling you I always go to Maya Angelou But when someone tells you who they are believe them the first time so that's information,

Right?

Intuitively you hear someone and you respond to it,

But they're giving you information and information is it's it's hard because it's not based in Passion in love as people really want to romanticize it.

It's not romantic But for me,

There's something really romantic about the idea that I'm gonna have a partnership That's based on logic that I want to marry someone also based on logic on the way We want to build a life the way we want to bring up kids So I think that's where information comes into play is that if I have information that this will be compatible That we're not that we want a future to we want a future together But we our futures are gonna look the same for each other That's information and it's not gonna work out and that's hard to resolve because I see a future with someone but when they look out and see a future with me,

We're in totally different cities or we're doing it totally different and That's where information comes into play and it's really believing Someone what they tell you and it's trusting in what you know with yourself and not letting love Come along and sidetrack you from who you have been before them I think it's so important is who was I Oh,

What was the vision of my life and the purpose?

What was the dream that they fell in love with about me?

What was I engaged in and not letting love sidetrack me from that and that's a promise again that you make to yourself and I'm really big about you know,

I say if you can be anything in life be your word and I try to I try to have integrity surrounding that and again it's hard because you can be in love with someone and have to break up with them because there's someone who you've always wanted to be or always seen for yourself and I think that At the end of the day I want to fall in love.

I want to have a romance with a person I've always wanted to become because I Deprived myself of that and I had no idea what that was gonna look like for a decade of my life If I have information now I'm gonna choose myself and just choose to see what kind of life I can lead because I Didn't trust I could do that before and now I feel I can I almost cried a minute ago when you were talking about Trusting yourself to take care of yourself.

Yeah,

Because I think I think especially when shit hits the fan whether it's anticipated grief or sudden grief We really these voices in our heads.

We really put ourselves through the wringer Emotionally mentally spiritually,

But then also physically as well.

Sometimes we also physically put ourselves through Just this this storm of you know,

I get this image right now of like grasping and trying and scraping and just like even trying on life to see if it works again,

But almost with a Like a frenzy and it's not it's not careful and it's not necessarily Loving either and I think I'm gonna do a spoiler actually for an interview that I'm on That's not gonna be released until later in this month.

I think but This woman I don't even remember the question that she asked me but I had this divine response,

You know,

I think the question was what was the biggest lesson you learned in your mother's death and I just responded the words came out of my mouth before I even knew them It was like I really don't need my mother to be able to take care of myself And I and I almost hated saying it because well,

Of course I need her I was 21 years old when she died Like of course,

I still need my mom But but to say those words out loud and to be like,

Yeah I can I can take care of myself and it sucks that she needed to die for me to be able to see that but I guess where I want to go next is how Concretely maybe with some steps or some tips or advice that you give so well in your column How do we walk ourselves back to a place where we start trusting ourselves not only to survive?

Every day but to actually take care of ourselves as people and as Romantic partners and as just like spiritual humans on the earth You know,

I think one step is that You know,

There's a voice and I think again I don't always go for that.

It needs to be these grand things I think it starts out and we should start on the smallest level So I say like if there's I remember with myself I'd be in New York and I'd be at the cash register Getting a coffee and I needed coins in order to do my laundry if I ever wanted to do it and I would be like Okay ask for coins I saw you have a dollar can you have quarters back and I'd be like,

I don't want to impose on that I can't do that So I would never do my laundry and it was something as small as that you learn to take care of yourself when instead of instead of waiting instead of not listening to the voice because you have some kind of Shame where you don't want to impose yourself or what are they gonna think and you're building it ups.

You're building it up You're not caring for yourself.

It's starting there.

So it was a very small thing I began asking for quarters and then that was a step closer to just me leading myself Then it began,

You know walk a block longer Okay,

So I actually want to stay outside I feel like I might have somewhere to go and I started listening go by this place and I saw the Conversation that I would have at that place.

It was small things,

But it was bursts of life on the other side of things it was bursts of allowance and I saw that through listening to what I Wanted to do on a very small level.

I was able to gain huge traction in my life And I was being a I was leading my own life I was leading myself into what I always needed which was connection and conversation And just that I wasn't going to wait anymore as I had always done To for someone else to be by my side in order to experience the thing that I saw I wanted to experience in order to sit on the bench a little bit longer in order to walk into the place that I saw That looked cool in order to take listen to take a picture You know when you see something on the street and you want to take a picture But then you're like everyone's gonna see me stopping to take a picture.

It's like take the damn picture for yourself That's important to you Stop thinking about what everyone else is thinking about it.

And I think we learn to take care of ourselves when we just do We do Your names what we need at that moment and we see that it's the small things because when we start doing the small things We end up getting you know Months down the line and we feel that something has changed Subtle right and we look back and we say everything's different and why this is important to me Is because I trust in the difference that's like that.

I trust in a difference that has been slow and steady Because it means that like it's become me These small moves have become now the way that I am Intuitively moving through life and I trust in the ability that it's become me it's not just a burst of this new me it's something that I've I've come into and So I think that you know ways that I help people who would encourage them to take care of themselves is You know,

I heard this in recovery with my sister and I was so like what are they talking about one day at a time?

Oh Gosh,

It's so frustrating and I used to have no patience,

Right?

I had no patience for myself I needed everything right now I mean for a cultural immediacy number one and their shame of things take one day at a time,

Right?

But I started you know,

Somehow it became me and I gave I had some grace with myself I was forgiving of myself.

I was trusting that if I finally listened to myself That was more than I had done before Which meant that it was gonna take me in a different direction and it was worth seeing if that direction would be different It was just worth discovering when I stopped I was dependent on Adderall for eight years It was harder than overcoming my eating disorder,

Right and I just said At a certain point was a scariest thing I'd ever give it given up because it was tied into really just this image that I had of myself and my career and all of it and my worth my value what I could give to the world through Adderall and Productivity and back to like my dad saying that if you're tired you're depressed in life and I use this drug to never be tired it was the it was my companion when I was alone and I said to myself if I Have to just try nothing else is working.

I'm tired all the time.

Nothing's happening eight years of my life I look completely strung out and I said I'm just gonna try I'm gonna try to see if In my mind it was always get off the drug and everything will change Get off the drug and your writing will be published Okay,

And I never saw I'm not ready to be off the drug These all for all the reasons right and one day I decided I would try Five days later.

My work was published by the place that I always wanted to be published and that green light I don't know if I hadn't gotten a green light that day Maybe I'd still be on it by now now Because I got a green light and never looked back and I saw that I had been right all along I waited eight years of my life to just listen to myself and I Really believe that every time inside where it says just begin Just do this just reach out reach into a new way.

It's always been exactly What I've needed and I've known it I think I've always known it but I was afraid of the responsibility that came with it the responsibility that came with being a more a person You know just that You know pat you know why and I as I say this I think it's because I always idolize the person that had everything naturally Right the person that was unrelatable But also was fearless and I think that I was so attached to the story of me being so crippled and not having that anymore and you know and that there was depth there and so I think that I always I got stuck and That being who I was and yet for me,

You know,

It's about I I broke up or you know,

I I It was about it's okay to be that person again it's okay to like let go of the story of how you've crippled yourself for so many years and it'll be I Don't know.

It'll be exciting to see what is possible for me if I get out of my own way and I'm not going to be the ten-year-old self Because I look at how much I've learned but I will never I realize I will never and it's horrible to say this I will never forgive myself if I haven't tried I realize that in life I will never forgive myself if I don't start and so I can't stand the idea of that and So that's a big reason that I just start now and I'm not waiting on myself anymore so I would tell people don't wait on yourself and listen to what you're hearing and let let yourself be the guide for once let Let you guide you and trust that it's leading you in a direction That might not feel right but is is necessary right now.

I like that a lot because so much of Grief the aftermath of grief the aftermath of breakups even is Autopilot What am I supposed to be doing?

What's expected of me?

What are they looking for?

What does everybody else do when this happens?

Um,

I kind of want to shift gears into your work with Breaking up specifically and and take a big focus here I know here on coming back a lot of the stories that we do tell are about death And so I want to know what?

Brings causes Instigate so many grief emotions in breaking up losing a future people People feel much more comfortable when they have someone by their side and they're looking outward and they say this person I don't have to rely only on myself to move myself forward in life with this person next to me They'll nudge me along.

They'll keep me going.

They'll keep me desiring something and we grieve our future That's why I see more than anything We grieve the future that we thought we were gonna have and you know A lot of people they they stay with people and they're with people for their potential,

Right?

So again It's grieving their potential and the potential that you thought that you were ultimately gonna get the satisfaction on the relationship That you're ultimately gonna get and so the emotions that I see is is not so much over the person It's over the idea of what you thought the person was going to provide you and it was the images you saw yourself closing in on and so you grieve that uh,

That they won't be there and You people,

You know as much as we're trying to become a culture of being in the present People still live their lives looking forward They really live their lives looking forward and it's startling When you lose the person that you were moving forward with and that was in many ways for people keeping them going keeping them Aspirational keeping them showing up every day I mean,

You know some people only take care of themselves because they're in a relationship and they feel like in a way they're under a microscope or they have someone to impress and People forget like impress your damn self,

You know,

Or you know,

Would you lose someone?

It's your turn now.

It's your turn to see where you can take yourself So I think that people get startled and panicked by by that and that's what their grieving is Is the future the vision and that now it comes down to them and there's responsibility in that there's responsibility There's no longer,

You know,

You know,

It's not like this shared power moving them to the world It's it's their own and people don't trust in their own power or they think that there's someone has to be in their life in Order to spark them in order to show love I think that one of the best things in the world is to realize that you know not to wait for someone to come into your life in order to give love or to give your To to pour out your thoughtfulness But to be giving it all along and it's not have to wait for someone or have to be reciprocated And I think once you start to do that There's not as much grief because it's not it your your love your liveliness is not attached Your unliveness is not attached to just you being in relation to one person Becomes you in relation to the world.

It's you ultimately are moving yourself through the world just because someone else is there you ultimately are sitting with yourself inside yourself every day and So I think that you know,

There's less less grief when we realize that ultimately if we can can Start working on how we move through the world and have that be the best thing possible If we make that kind of the project of our lives and we will really begin to feel in love with our reality.

I like that response and that was that's kind of what I was thinking too,

But there is this image or a perception especially when you say you're a breakup coach of like good riddance and burn your bra and kick him to the curb and all you know all those other types of phrases that that resist Love I'm behind the fur.

Yeah.

Yes,

But but what you're you're teaching is not a resistance to love it's a shifting of that perspective and I I really like that.

It's a different It's a different angle with which to view relationships and dating and the people that we choose to spend time with I'm wondering if you can pinpoint for us now one Resource that really really helped you come back or maybe something that you return to over and over and over again and say this is What helps me come back?

So one thing that I use over and over and over again is being in conversation with other people You know,

I used to think that and I think a lot of us feel like we're only alive I mean people cry so hard in front of me when they come to me clients that they've lost their their they've lost access to life if they let go of someone they will no longer have a wife and For me it's about and I used to feel the same way I thought I could only be in love alive when I was it when I had a relationship and for me what brings me back is being in conversation with other people and when I say that I mean that people that it's not about like people that I'm I'm gonna be always are gonna be in my life It's not about calling my best friend or pouring out energy and commitment to that.

It's about talking to uber drivers It's about talking to people on the street It's about I was just ordering food and the guy wanted to close the restaurant down and he was so angry that he was gonna Have to make my friend and I food.

I mean he was he was done with it And I say what did I say?

I I said something and it was just playful and I was being playful in light the guy Transformed his energy.

He ended up giving us the meal for free because he regretted how we had just seen him The guy was a different person and I'm talking about that's the stuff that brings me back I mean I'm going through a breakup right now the things that have gotten me back that make me not regret or Reconsider or put my old relationship up on a pedestal is being in conversation with other people is seeing people light up a scene other people light up when I stand and talk to them and Also me become lighter,

You know,

I spend my life With this unbearable weight.

So for me the thing that I come back to is what makes me feel light I think used to think that it was only Relationships,

But no,

It's it's it's me being in Conversation a burst of conversation even with other people and that's the thing,

You know again It's it's not just a resource like name a book,

But I think that this is something that This is the thing that I've always made in my life and it's something that we always have I say listen I everyone that you're near all their choices throughout their life all the choices They've ever made has brought them to a place that they're standing right in front of you Maybe have a little curiosity about that and talk to them because your choices brought you next to them too Even just in a moment on a freaking bus,

Right and just be a little bit curious About why you're standing here and you're near other other people that's so neat because it's such a The word that's coming forward for me right now is enchantment just being delighted and enchanted that oh my gosh We're all on this thing together and look how we all got here and there's nothing trite about that at all It's almost a miracle that you know things like buses like trains like all going to work at the same time that we orchestrate these So well for ourselves,

I mean even this interview It's like I'll meet you at 8 p.

M.

My time 9 p.

M.

Your time and we just show up and it's like something got us all here I mean some of us have to earn a paycheck and some of us are visiting our parents and some of us You know have a doctor's appointment,

But we're all in this space together.

So there's a level of enchantment that I sense that you have found in Being alive with others on the planet and that's really cool that that's coming through because It's an opposite It's an opposite but complementary tack to take in grief because in grief often there's a disenchantment and everything's falling apart But in the opposite hand I always use this metaphor if you hold two realities one in each hand and you can never fully drop either one of them while you're grieving is the searing joy and enchantment and total depths of despair but to see that Enchantments start to outweigh that That despairing this the disconnection the loss of identity loss of time loss of self-respect and to have this be the counterweight To that is very cool.

I Mean,

I I know that I will never go back.

I really trust in that I will never go back to the despair of being disconnected from people because I Am you're right.

I am enchanted.

I think it's a miracle that I've even that that it's working that the conversations all along were all I needed and I'm enamored by people and I could never Never I mean it never allow myself to become skeptical Or distant or guarded because of one loss I could never allow for it I will never allow myself not to be curious about people and and again I'm just I'm really enamored by people and I don't want to just talk to one type of person I want to talk to every type of person and I realize that with breakups It's not just about romantic people open up about the times that they've lost They've lost interest in themselves and finally after living a decade away from other people Which is not what I wanted I have found a way to speak to anyone and have someone when someone says what do you do?

It no longer becomes about me.

It gives them permission to open up about who they are.

It's unbelievable and I'm just I'm I'm In all of it.

I'm in awe Because it's given me access to others And that is the gift of our deepest grief is that uh all of a sudden we have a deeper access to life as well