Experiencing Grief In The Body With Victoria Albina

Grief growers,

I am really stoked to introduce you to Victoria Albina.

We have just already such an energetic and stimulating conversation before getting on the mic here because I have a sense that what Victoria does for people and just in general in the world is literally plugs them back into Themselves after trauma after loss after events that change their lives So Victoria welcome to the show and tell us a little bit more about who you are what you do and your relationship to loss.

Hey Shelby,

Thank you so much for having me.

I'm absolutely delighted to be here.

So My name is Victoria Albina.

I am a holistic nurse practitioner Breathwork meditation facilitator and life coach I use she her pronouns and I'm coming to you from occupied Lenape territory Territory also known as Brooklyn,

New York City.

I'm also the host of the weekly free podcast feminist wellness So my relationship to grief who it's hard to even know where to start I was born in Argentina during a brutal dictatorship and born into a beautiful loving family with aunties uncles cousins abuelos like lots of family really close by And when I was around two and a half my family immigrated to the United States for more opportunities economic opportunities Educational opportunities and Argentina wasn't a great smart place to stay in back Then if you had a way to get out and it's really been in the last 15 years or so that I've come to really understand what a profound Gift and privilege it is to be able to immigrate and we did so With documents which is like a stunning privilege For one for which I am incredibly grateful,

But there's a lot of grief that comes with leaving everything you've ever known right and the Connection with family and coming to a country where you are quite a strange bird in a strange land and as Argentines in the 80s in Rhode Island,

We we were lonely right there weren't a lot of people like us We are very different culturally from other Latinos and it was a It was a challenging experience for my parents for sure who did everything they could to keep Argentine folkloric music around to you know read Borges and our important authors Maria Elena Walsh They you know,

They kept Spanish alive in the household But there was this grief that I felt within them that I you know took me 25 30 years of living to really recognize what it was that grief of having left everything behind and in a in a way having to Close their hearts to missing Because it takes over everything right the grief the missing the longing the pain The missing the longing the wanting the wishing Would take over your life if you didn't find a way to encapsulate it Right to hold in those tidal waves of just like missing Football games on a Friday night with your friends.

We're from a beach town from spending the whole summer on the beach drinking mate our national drink and having asado,

Argentine barbecue and just the closeness and the connection of Well,

Our family lived in an apartment building all of us in the same building So my abuelos were on the first floor.

We were on the second my aunt and uncle were on the third and so It was like just this constant family house And we lost that when we came here there we gained so much But the survivors grief the survivors guilt the missing was like It was like a fifth family member in my house growing up Surrounded by love surrounded by care given all the best opportunities this country could give me I am Endlessly grateful and I do believe that we can hold duality Right,

We can have gratitude for what we've been given we can see the positive and give thanks While also holding that these experiences carry a grief that seeps into our bones And i've always been a human who's been drawn to working around transitions.

I was a hospice nurse I've always been called to the places where people are transitioning from one state to another My work as a nurse practitioner is holistic functional medicine is my passion really getting to the root cause And as a life coach,

I help folks to Start to see their own minds and the stories we have learned to tell as survival mechanisms Often created by our inner children who are so brilliant and amazing And came up with these stories about ourselves our relationships to other people to ourselves as humans our worth our value And they were so beautiful as kids because they kept us from dying And that was that's literally our nervous system's only job when we're small But now those same beautiful gifts to help us through those transitions particularly in chaotic families those thought habits like perfectionism codependency and people pleasing they're now um They're now not of benefit right they do not serve us as grown adults in the world And so I help folks to see those things and shift those stories to transition away from that old way of being to create a new Self and there's a lot of grief in there too,

Right?

There's not only um grieving the old self but grieving the old habits the old identities the old patterns the old homes both physical and emotional And immediately,

I mean I always um,

Right when I'm in interviews with people but um The first thing that you mentioned this grief It's both a it's both a grief and a privilege to be able to immigrate And the first question I have is is what do you do or how do you behave?

When there's this feeling of My memories My traditions my home might not be the same memories my traditions my home might just be erased from my mind and I think like this is so relevant to grief too Is there's almost like the sticky fingers like this grief of like i've got to keep it within my hands or within my grasp or else I risk the whole thing just Escaping me or flying away from me That's so interesting.

My brain goes immediately to In childhood,

I have this absolute obsession with all things argentine starting with what was accessible Like I literally memorized all of the vita Which is just like what are you doing kid?

Right?

It's the most like latinx immigrant thing to like memorize this Show written by like a white dude in english about The parentess and my family's not parent It's but I it was the easiest access point,

Right?

My room was plastered in photos of argentina and of my family and I spent my entire allowance like every month calling home like it was all I wanted to spend my like You know babysitting my sister Walking the dog mowing the lawn money on was because phone calls were so expensive in the 80s and 90s,

Right?

Now we're on whatsapp every two seconds sending stupid gifts.

It's a delightful change but um,

Yeah,

It was all I wanted to like invest in Right,

And it's interesting to pause i've never thought about this.

So thank you I was investing my energy in holding close to those memories And I think you know that can be a double-edged sword of keeping us from being present In the world in which we are now living and whether that's the grief of losing a loved one like losing their physical form in this human realm or immigration right and losing a place even moving and so It can be a challenge to find that balance where you are honoring what has been loving what has been But remembering to be present where you are But remembering to be present where you are Yeah,

And I love that you brought that up too because I think um That's a constant Struggle that any of us who have ever experienced loss or trauma faces like where is the pendulum middle ground?

Of Honoring what has been but also continuing not only to be present but also to create forward momentum also And for me,

I have this perspective that forward momentum is happening whether you consent to it or not It's kind of just part it's built in until we all die.

Um Yes,

And I think the next place I want to go is this presence That you spoke of of the fifth person who lived in the house because I think in grief So often we talk about the empty chair the presence of the thing that is missing but then oftentimes grief is its own Present entity as if somebody else has entered the house as opposed to there is a ghost of someone who has left Yes Yeah you know,

I think it's it's What comes to me is the importance of honoring that presence I talk a lot in my work about how We create suffering when we are out of acceptance Right when we are in resistance of what is and i'm not talking about political resistance like Shelby let's go to the streets right now and resist Let's get it girl,

But like that's not what I am talking about to be very clear.

I support resistance politically I mean emotionally internally and I mean resistance to accepting life on life's terms and what is right that sort of mashing of fists and Sort of screeching into the night that says I want it to be different And I believe that's a really vital and important part of the grief process And it is not to be rushed It is to be acknowledged and loved Like it's the same with all the That I coach folks around codependency perfectionism People pleasing they are all gifts Right gifts like I was saying previously right that kept you Alive and somewhat functional and when you hate them and you're mad at them and you want them to go away In like your littlest little kid voice,

Right?

It keeps it present in your heart and mind as a place of like struggle of friction of anxiety of tension Versus allowing it to be Versus allowing it to be which creates that beautiful internal flow state In which you can find that way to say into the night I grieve this loss I feel this in my bones And I honor it for what it is and the weight of it weight of it instead of attempting to buffer against it to push it away to fill the void with something else but to say yes There is the empty chair and yes There is this new presence And I will wear it like a loose garment Versus attempting to force it to go away before it's done its work and I have done mine You're speaking my language and I get this image sometimes of Um,

You said loose garment both of these presence is the ghost of what happened in the presence of grief Sometimes I try and take both of those pieces of clothing and stuff them down the garbage disposal and like turn it on I'm like get out of here.

Can I want to shred them into pieces and just watch them down the things that go away And I think I want to move into this next place of of how do you start the conversation with your inner child because before we got onto the mic you said such an insightful thing about 20 of emotion takes place in the brain but 80 takes place in the body and I think so much of our childhood self Is like I felt it and then I turned it into a story Or I had a story and then I internalized it.

So I think they both communicate with each other But how do you shift into this place of I mean for me with perfectionism?

I used to hate the thing and try and fix it and five ways to ditch perfectionism for me about like all these buzzfeed articles And stuff and one day I finally sat down.

I was like oh my god,

I'm so excited I was like,

Oh my god,

You've been trying to save me this whole time.

And so it changed the energy of it into Gratitude for the fact that perfectionism was the tool that I reached for and simultaneously How can we shift into something that doesn't feel so tight like from spandex into a moomoo?

Oh my god I anyone who can mix metaphors as well as I can welcome to coming back.

Oh my god I love it.

And I usually I'm like,

Oh,

You know,

English is my second language,

But You're winning you're winning at mixed metaphors and I'm here for it Here for it.

Well,

You know what honestly like let's start with laughter Right,

So the zen hospice in san francisco where I worked was one of the most uproarious places i've ever been in We just lived and died cracking up Because why not like it's hospice you got six months max.

What else are you doing?

Right And i'm sure this i'm hearing people's ears listening to this that this is a shock to hear That hospice is a place of laughter that juxtaposition.

It can be it's a choice,

Right?

And I rolled in there with my leo energy,

Obviously if someone's in pain if someone's you know in a moment of suffering crying Of course,

I honor that I hold space for that.

I show up with all of my tenderness for that and I and caution right like I My work as a human animal and the work that I bring To my practice to my clients is all about authenticity All about getting real all about getting present with the real feelings that are wherever on the spectrum of sensation they are so I'm not recommending laughter as a way to once again buffer against or try to push away The sobbing the sad the grieving the hurt the angry like we need to feel that all And I deeply believe that we can bring in lightness And one of the first things I would do at the start of my shift at the hospice was to ask people to tell me something good Right tell me a story.

No one likes to tell a story Like a dying person There's so much fun,

Right?

Like I would just show up and like sit at the end of their bed and be like hi want to tell me a story Hi want to tell me a story and we would just have these amazing conversations Right and i'd be like tell me something ridiculous Tell me a time you like got caught with your pants down in life Right and they're like,

Well,

Here we go Right,

So you can bring that lightness and that laughter and that energy in and it is such a beautiful way To connect in with our inner children.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well and it reminds me of um,

The book on living by kiri egan who was a hospice nurse and she wrote a lot about um the things that dying people wish that living people knew before they stood in their shoes essentially and there are these moments of laughter,

But um I think for the most part people see hospice or they think of hospice and even that perfectionism brain is like this is not A place where laughter exists and so by bringing laughter into that space you're slowly busting up that That story of oh,

No,

This doesn't belong here,

Right?

So it like releases the grips of the quarantine on emotions that we often have.

Yeah,

It's interesting It made me think of how when i've told people that I worked hospice.

The first thing they say is oh how hard People say that with my work.

I'm right.

It's not as hard as you think it is That's funny and it's like dark funny because when you're breathing you can pull some funny shit jokes.

Oh sure Yeah,

But hospice was like yes,

It was so sad when a patient passed and it was so But it was also light and beautiful and and sweet and tender and again It was this constant daily request For us all to be present Us all to honor Yeah those sensations that are coming up from our bodies those molecules of emotion that come up through our vagus nerve and cause a feeling Cause an emotion in our bodies and to get really present with those physical sensations because I don't think that it honors No I know that it does not honor someone who is in their transition out of this life To show up carrying your own baggage and putting it at their bedside So when we honor the sensations in our own physiology in our somatic Bodily experience of being a living human we show up and can put down the perfectionism the people pleasing The stories the lack of worthiness,

Right?

We can step into our full power to be present Loving kind and to show up empowered Right to show up and be present And can we talk about too this image of baggage which I think is so helpful I think Sometimes we have expectations of who people are supposed to be or how they're supposed to behave as they're dying And then we have expectations of the kinds of people that we're supposed to be as someone else is dying And so when we're not fitting into what either of those pictures are or like someone who's dying is laughing right or someone who's dying Is suddenly reverted to rage about the fact that it's happening and all you're like I didn't expect this I just thought you'd be sad right or these things are happening in our own bodies It's like well,

What do we do then when what's happening contradicts all the stories that we've written about right how this should go?

Right.

Well,

I think we start right now today in this moment To recognize and honor who we truly are And to recognize that the human brain runs on programming like any computer And all those stories are just the stories that happen to have been programmed into you So that's the storybook right like i'm you know I'm in my 40s.

So I think of a cassette tape,

Right?

It's just like the cassette tape,

Right?

Someone made a mixtape,

Right?

That was like,

Okay.

Here's how you're a good girl.

You are quiet.

You listen,

You don't create conflict You um,

You know,

Don't let yourself be wrong because you stay ahead of everything you put everyone ahead of yourself Right,

You take care of everyone's needs ahead of your own,

Etc,

Etc,

Etc And so you recognize it's just a cassette tape like it's not a fact,

Right?

Just because you're thinking it doesn't make it a fact and so you get to say i'm changing the tape I am changing.

Oh and then also It it doesn't become your job to make the story on the cassette tape come true It takes the pressure of that.

I must manifest this in truth Reality because this is the story that's being told there's a lot of and gosh,

Do you see how I even switched vocal ranges there?

I sure do.

Um,

It's like that's the that's the pressure I think so often we put on ourselves It's like they only die once so it has to go exactly like that Well in theory you only die once some people die and come back I suppose and then they die again,

But like And here's us laughing again But sometimes we tell these stories of like and it's gotta go just like this or something like that Or they didn't have a good death or they didn't have a perfect death or I didn't have a good experience of their death Yeah,

All these other stories they incorporated me well and that brings up like a key component of what I teach Which is to stop trying to manage other people's minds Right like you're not the ceo of other people's brains A number one,

It's not your business b number two It's kind of patronizing and paternalistic c number three.

You've got your own life to manage Right,

Like you don't know what someone else thinks is a good death or a good life or a good experience of being With someone dying like you literally have no idea and that is what is at the core of perfectionism Right and codependency is our so We do think that we're not the co-dependent of ourselves So we do things like people pleasing not because we actually want to please other people But because we want to think of ourselves as beyond reproach Can you say that one more time for the folks in the back?

We do not people please to actually attempt to keep other people happy But because we want to convince ourselves that we are beyond reproach Ah,

Right.

I've never heard that in my life and I think a bunch of people's brains are just having a breakthrough.

Yep I'm,

So glad right so we tell the story to ourselves and anybody who will listen how we like.

Oh,

Yeah No,

I just needed to take care of her first Oh,

You know it really it put me out so much to go take care of my dad when he was dying But you know,

That's what else would a daughter do right?

Like we tell these stories To make the other person be pleased with us,

But really it's because we worry that we are not perfect We are not lovable.

We are not worthy Right,

We have been socialized particularly human socialized as women BIPOC folks queer folks immigrantes on and on There can is this story that gets programmed into us that we are less than which is total BS And we seek and we seek and we seek and we seek to undermine that story Just prove that story tell a different story flip the narrative but externally externally And the true healing the true work the true internal salvation comes when you take All of that work all of that effort all of that time and that energy and raise that mirror up And turn it inward Right to work on the self-love healing your beautiful inner children Right giving them love and attention attuning to your own perfect vagus nerve So you can know what you are feeling that 80 of human sensation and emotion Before you lose your mind right before you flip a table Right or collapse into a puddle instead you are giving yourself Your attention as your primary life focus me first you second with love The addition of with love is powerful with love because I think there's a story especially that a lot of um,

I get this image of like waspy white anglo-saxon protestant women tell themselves it is selfish to To serve the self first to be the first person who who eats from the table or Takes a rest or kind of whatever else.

Yeah Um,

The story is and so it's something that really upends I think grief is an upending experience in general But oftentimes we don't expect our entire Frameworks of how we've been living for 20 30 40 50 years to be turned on their head Um,

And you've mentioned um the vagus nerve a couple times.

So can you introduce people who maybe have never heard of it?

What it is what it does how it's informed by grief and trauma and maybe how we can start to have a conversation with it Yes with great joy,

But first about the self-love healing first about the selfish i'd love to propose two remedies to that train of thought And so and they're remedies because you're not broken so you don't need to get fixed ahem so And I often do this with my clients.

I'll invite you to try on two or more different thoughts And to feel into your body which will be a fabulous segue to the vagus nerve but to feel into your body for the information Right,

You know understanding that our thoughts create our feelings in that 20 of top down Experience of being a human.

So the two thoughts I have folks try is No,

I'm not being selfish it is my job on this planet to take care of me first To fill my own cup so I may give from my overflow Right because if not,

I am draining my cup and then what service What use will I be of to the world?

If I am coming from there Right from that empty place So that is one angle to try on the second is oh,

Yeah,

You know,

It's selfish and what?

Come at me what come at me right like yeah,

I have decided that Women the human socializes women being told we are not to be selfish is really problematic and a core way that the patriarchy You know keeps itself rocking and rolling by keeping us exhausted and feeling guilty for having human needs and human bodies Right.

So that's the other framework the other thought to try on and see what feels right in your body Both will get you to a similar destination of beginning to release and sort of shake free that Guilt associated with actual real self-care But yeah,

Those are my two favorite remedies.

I love it because the first one is selfishness is restoration Like it's okay to restore the self and the other one is selfishness is rebellion which speaks to me a lot more and i'm like Fuck the system be selfish.

It's awesome.

You are such a leo right now.

You are in your full leo glory Oh my goodness fellow leo and I love grief bars You don't know this but we're recording on august 4th a day after victoria's birthday and eight days before mine So we are having a whole leo celebration here on the whole.

Yeah A month prior to this being released so you'll hear this after the fact and our hair looks fantastic We're just having a little birthday party over here and we look so good.

Our hair looks so good We've both touched our hair 15 times me more I know I do all the time Yes,

It's hard to be this gorgeous.

No,

It's not it's easy It's so fun.

It's easy Well,

And here's like another thing.

Oh,

Yeah Come to that well,

And I literally just wrote down as you were having these um alternate stories and maybe let's do vegas nerve first Ponder this question as you're talking about this,

But what is your all-time favorite story to tell yourself?

But maybe we'll close with that.

I want to hear um vegas nerve grief relationship Communication.

Okay,

Great.

So the vegas nerve is the 10th cranial nerve It is the longest nerve in the human body.

Its name vegas comes from the latin to wander because it wanders through the whole middle Of the animal that is you And it has several very important jobs So it enervates or gives nerve function to your eyes your ears some degree your nose Your throat and your swallowing capacity your heart and lungs diaphragm,

Which is You know,

It's the diaphragm is a muscle that is a huge measure of safety or lack thereof Um your digestion thyroid reproductive function And on the way back up carries feelings and so the vegas nerve Has two branches the sympathetic which folks have probably heard about fight or flight freak out Adrenaline norepinephrine eventually cortisol from your adrenal glands and folks who have been through grief Often have a lot of taxation,

Right?

There's a lot of burden put on the adrenal glands So one of the early episodes of my podcast feminist wellness is all about adrenal health so cortisol When we are stressed out our cortisol these chemicals get pushed released into the body And their primary goal is to prepare us to Run from a lion or turn around if we know we can't outrun a lion which ps you can't outrun it It's kind of like grief that way and socket in the nose,

Which we effectively talked about right trying to take that loose garment That is grief and shove it down the garbage disposal Just keeps you jacked up on cortisol,

Right?

It's tempting I get it.

It makes sense why people would do it,

But doesn't help to shift it out Right be in so that's sympathetic fight or flight and then parasympathetic is the other part of the nervous system and that has two parts Ventro vego,

Which is our safe Social connected part of our nervous system.

That's when we look out into the world And we don't see a lion coming but instead we see the friendly smile Of someone very nice and we think I feel safe here But actually what we're doing is feeling we're feeling I am safe here and we're listening with our ears sounds A voice which is how we both talk normally naturally right with a sweet sort of sing-song tone with gentle tones to our voice And then the final part of the vegas complex is the nervous system And then the final part of the vegas complex,

Um this polyvagal complex a term coined by dr Stephen porja's phd Is um the dorsal vehicle which is the back body and that's the immobilization the freeze response And so when we are in depression,

We are often predominantly in that freeze response And so in the animal kingdom,

We see this in possums in deer when startled or frightened,

Right?

Because if you're a possum,

You're very small and what are you gonna outrun?

Probably nothing But a smart predator knows you don't eat dead things right dead things make you sick unless you kill them yourself And so you look at a possum as a cougar and you're like meh that's probably got germs next right I bring this up to say that much like our the experience of shifting through grief Our bodies shift through all of these states throughout the day and that is natural and normal.

No state is better and When we are in ventral vega,

Which is the safe secure connected part of our nervous system Our cognitive capacities are optimized that is you think goodly Your thyroid works.

Well,

You can digest your meals You have the like optimized reproductive function meaning if you have menstrual cycles,

Those are Normal,

Right regular 20 to 30 days Etc.

And so I think this is really important to understand because the more we can tap into our bodies Particularly when moving through the processes of grief and to ask ourselves.

Where's my nervous system at?

Like where where am I right now?

What's going on?

We can learn to hear sympathetic like that little touch of adrenaline when it's a whisper Just barely floating into our bloodstream or we can feel that shift that acetylcholine right that movement into freeze Where you start to self-doubt To question yourself to withdraw right to get into the the darker part of the cave Which makes sense,

Right?

That's where you should go if you can't outrun the lion and the the villagers aren't around to protect you You should put your back dorsal against the wall of the cave and so When we understand the way the nervous system works and the effects it has on our experience of life We can support ourselves to move Well first and foremost into loving appreciation which you and I have talked so much about right?

I heard you say and I loved it.

My perfectionism was trying to save me Wow,

That is powerful like can I get a t-shirt?

We'll make one together.

Okay,

Great.

Let's do it.

It's done But um,

Right so when our bodies shunt into these different states They are trying to protect us.

They love us.

It is not to be hated or pushed against or said like oh It's so bad that i'm like in stress right now,

But rather whatever state we find ourselves in We can ask ourselves does it serve me to be here?

Do I want to be here and most importantly what is the lesson of here?

Right Why am I in this stress response?

How can I attend to myself?

How can I support myself?

What do I need?

What are my glimmers and so glimmers is a term I read I learned from Deb Dana who's a phenomenal writer in the polyvagal sphere And she's a therapist and she writes about glimmers which are the things that bring us back into ventral vagal when we have spent the the amount of time we need to either ramped up on adrenaline or sobbing in the corner and we're ready right our bodies let us know like we're ready and What just popped into my head is little kids You know how they run and they get in your lap and they're like totally fine as they run up to you And then they like hold up a finger and they're like,

Oh my god I heard it my finger And you're like,

Uh-huh,

But you were just okay cool kid and they're like I'm so sad and they'll just sob and sob and sob and then they're like,

Okay,

I'm done Thank you,

And they get up and run away and you're like What just happened?

What the fuck just happened kid?

And that is the completion of the stress activation cycle that kiddo just went from ventral vagal to Just went from ventral vagal playing herted their finger went into sympathetic Right Had to show you had to show you the hooded finger Cried it all out allowed their body to work through that adrenaline cycle come back to baseline Connect with you through ventral vagal see you smiling having a tender face And they're done Mm-hmm,

And we get to treat ourselves And this is the biggest one of the biggest lessons i've learned after 20 years in health and wellness We are toddlers my angels We're just grown toddlers who like can put on our own pants and pay taxes and drink coffee and but we're just toddlers And so the more we can learn to reconnect with those sensations in our bodies that create 80 of our emotions Especially when we are in the throes of grief We can know when we need to like Throw ourselves a lifeline as it were And to run up to someone and show them our finger and say my mom died,

Right?

My auntie died Right.

I lost my job.

I got a new job and I hate it.

I immigrate it.

I You know,

Whatever the grief the pain the worry is and to say can you kiss it better?

Mm-hmm,

Right so both looking inward at our thoughts and the feelings they create and looking outward for social connection safety support Well and what I love too Is I think there's often this perception in grief that we have to teach kids how to grieve and so often Especially as adults.

I find myself learning from them.

I'm like,

Oh you allow the process to arrive and then complete itself And so many adult grievers especially clients I have in people I talk to they they keep using this word They're like i'm stuck I'm either stuck in numbness where I feel nothing at all and I feel like i've been Detached from my tether on a whole other planet or I am so on fire nerves exposed Like skin has been rubbed raw all the time that I don't know how to turn it off yeah,

And so there's almost this sensation of I am I'm suspended in one of two extremes and I don't know how to bridge or even just Close this process like um to create the transition of an ending for myself in this process.

Yes Yes,

Yes.

Yes.

Yeah,

And so recognizing Story follows state That that numb feeling is dorsal vagal that is a dissociation response One might assume right and that is natural and normal And yes at some point we are ready to move on But recognizing that our cognitive self or the pressures of our socialization may make us think We are meant to move on before our physiology is ready.

Uh,

And the story is always it is wrong to be here Which goes back to these questions that you asked that I wrote down.

Does it serve me to be here?

Do I want to be here and what is the lesson of here and the whole time it's like um,

Like frog in a hot frying pan.

It's like i'm just trying to get off the thing because it doesn't feel good I'm like,

Well,

What do we wait a minute?

Why don't we just feel it and see what happens?

Yeah,

It is magical what happens when you sorrow It out like a four-year-old It creates so much space within the organism so much space Oh,

I felt like i've gone through the dishwasher.

I felt great It was like the craziest and that's where um grief growers who've who've read my first book permission to grief Will remember that story of I got my wallet stolen two years after my mom died and I never let myself grieve Until my wallet got stolen and I went home banging on the floor and and just crying my heart out and put on this screamo music for like a half hour didn't even take Very long to exit the body which is so funny because i've been holding it back for two and a half years I was laying there on the floor and I was like That was awesome and it was gone.

Yep.

And and the the story I was telling myself is wow You just gave yourself permission to grieve which is where the title the book came from which is where all these practices and my work with clients came from and And all these other things when I was like,

Why was I so afraid of the fact that I was so afraid of the fact that I was so afraid of And we're almost I think so much but we're so afraid of our own power and what our bodies could do to us Because of what the experience of grief has already done to us And there's a victim story there and and all that that implies.

Yes.

Yeah Yeah,

It is a scary thing when you have been when you are one of the many many humans socialized to believe that you are not powerful To recognize how powerful your emotions are We are so convinced we have no power all of the time.

I know it's heartbreaking.

Wow,

That just Right,

I just entered my whole body.

That was amazing.

Yeah We are socialized to believe that we have no power here,

Yep So for people who are listening Who just got touched the same way I got touched by that is Okay,

So if i'm recognizing that I might have power it's entering my brain as a possibility Yeah How do I tune into it?

How do I tap into it and reclaim?

Myself for myself.

Yes Well,

So again two parallel processes working with the body and the experience of being a soma being a body in this world And the cognitive process of looking at your thoughts your habitual thoughts Right that programming in your brain that cassette tape just going to keep mixing metaphors Right all those stories that got put in your brain by someone else by systems by our families of origin Etc So I invite folks to look at them in concert and in parallel starting always with our feelings And working to get into better touch into more mindfulness more presence With the sensations in our bodies and this will likely be quite challenging Particularly if this is a wildly new concept Right,

But to start to feel into our bodies in different moments and to ask ourselves Where does that sensation live?

And to get really descriptive with it So we're often we are trained that when you go to your primary care provider and you say I have a head And they say tell me about it and you're like well it is on the front left of my head sort of over my eye It is stabby and it's kind of heavy right we're used to using adjectives to describe physical sensations We just forget that emotions are physical sensations right that they're vibrations of energy in our human form And so i'll ask folks You know when I just heard you that you're feeling angry.

Where do you feel that?

You're feeling angry.

Where do you feel it?

What's it like?

And i'll hear you know,

It's like this red hot angry moving Thing in my belly and I feel like it's creeping up my throat and it just is like I feel it in my hands now as i'm talking about it right,

And so we'll use that sort of It's an easier way to get in to start to talk about our feelings using descriptive words Because we're used to using it in different contexts,

Right?

So reminding yourself of the importance of doing that and making it a daily practice Depending on the client and how stuck they are feeling I'll have them check in two three four twenty times a day for just a moment To see where are you holding tension?

Right,

Is there tension in your neck and shoulders and jaw for those in the midst of grief?

I'm gonna vote.

Yes Right,

We know that grief is also held in the lungs and in the hips Are your hips tight today,

Baby?

Is that your grief?

Right,

And so we'll start to open up these conversations in which we recognize that all of our sensations All of our emotions are etched into the body And I say etched like an etch-a-sketch because it can be shifted Right,

It can be moved.

It's not engraved.

It's not carved in there,

Right?

It's simply etched Right,

It's just on the surface that doesn't mean it's not profound and it doesn't have huge impacts it isn't to be given the weight and heft that it requires but It is movable.

It is changeable Liquid.

Liquid,

Yes And simultaneously we look at the stories that have been shared Look at the stories the habitual thoughts,

Right?

I am so sad and I'm so frustrated about it Why can't I just get over this death?

It's been Five minutes five years five decades the why can't I's the I shoulds I shouldn't Right the if onlys oh the buddhist second arrow There's definitely a podcast episode all about the second arrow,

Which is well just let folks listen to the show But right so we shoot that second arrow we make ourselves feel even worse about what has already been By letting the what if parade just crawl across our brains,

Right?

If only Um,

And so we look at those cognitions that have been written into the mind and that we've come to believe them because neuroplasticity Right,

So we believe the things that we hear Over and over and over and over again again does not mean that they're fact that they're real Or that as you so smartly said we have to live into those stories But we get to recognize that they're there and often for the first time in their lives.

My clients are like Wait,

What?

I don't I don't have to believe that and i'm like,

No you do not Right,

Like does it matter what you weigh?

You are perfect.

Doesn't matter what your job is You are perfect right on and on and on and on right?

Um and through that process look at the stance of life The thoughts we're having about it the feeling those thoughts create and then understanding that as human mammals because science We take action based on our feelings Right.

I don't think anyone like crosses the street because they're like,

Well,

I think the coast is probably clear What?

Right You feel into it and your body feels those cues of safety through your vagus nerve and you look both ways Cues of safety and you launch yourself across the street,

Right?

So we take action Based on our feelings and create a result in our own lives And that's the process I walk people through That's magnificent because it doesn't just provide one avenue it's like a marriage of Two and so for those who are more feeling into their bodies,

It's okay Let's let's start with the body because you're already in it and you can feel it and tap into it And for those who feel totally shut off from the thing is like maybe start with story And see if we can get to body through Story and so there's avenues to right to get at or like attach yourself to both It creates a lot of room to breathe.

Yes A lot of possibility space in there.

Yeah,

And one of the main reasons I left western medicine,

Um Was because there was this false narrative that psyche and soma are separate And they're just not right there is no mental health without physical health and no physical health without mental health They are literally the same thing because the mind-body interplay is constant and eternal And so we get to Be a party to the practice of By attending to both in parallel and as you said go where it's warm right start where it's easy Build up that faith and that trust in yourself that you can do hard things Knowing they soon won't feel like hard things and then you can try the other approach Easy peasy I love it.

It reminds me very much of a course I teach called life after loss academy And the first thing that we do the first three weeks of the 12-week program we spend on feeling safe in the world.

Yes because you cannot explore grief without first feeling like There is something under your feet Supporting you or you know tethering you to some kind of planet that you can reel back in when things get scary or hard or unsafe So I was like,

Oh my god,

I'm literally helping people reprogram their vegas And it's it's wild and I I think there's so much more of this work that's needed in the world because The story that we often tell ourselves is that we are wrong and we need fixing.

I know when in fact we are responding very normally to trauma loss pain surprise shock grief An upending of normalcy.

Um,

I want to go back to this question of um,

I'll ask it two ways What's one of your favorite thoughts to have or what's a a thought that you've been telling yourself on repeat right now?

Oh stayed in your life I am worthy That's a big one that's part of my daily journaling for the last decade or so And when yeah when I first started doing that kind of neuroplasticity work the neuroplasticity work I do with my clients I would write,

You know,

I am worthy of love.

I am worthy of care.

I am you know worthy of fill in the blank and now I have simply found so much peace and just reminding myself that I am worthy And breathing that and writing that into the universe and writing that into my psyche that has been really really powerful Also,

You know things about acceptance right so a thought about accepting life on life's terms because What this pandemic has highlighted for so many of us is the uncertainty that all of us live,

You know that we all live with as human organisms on this planet at all times and So that reality has felt stark to some but for you and I and your listeners and your audience And I and your listeners who walk in the space of death and grief and lost We know that life is profoundly uncertain,

Right?

Like yeah,

Welcome to the club exactly,

Right?

Welcome.

Do you have a ticket?

Right,

But it's like i'm just thinking of a client of mine who like monday at 5 30 had a husband He said i'm going to the supermarket 20 minutes later dead husband,

Right?

Wow,

Yeah And I'm like,

What is this car accidents happen?

Right or my patients in the hospice and What transpires there right so this in this club we know that uncertainty is the cornerstone of life And we didn't know before we knew Right and so coming into the deeply accepting This amongst many other facts of being a mammal here Is just so freeing right because when Sort of blips come up on the radar right when there's an altercation alteration of the plan Uh interesting slip alteration altered What do you think it means paging dr.

Freud?

I know But I like that right An altercation of the plan right who's fighting for the plan us.

What's the universe doing giving us what we need?

Right Yeah,

So accepting life on life's terms has been a really driving thought for me I love that.

Yeah,

What comes does anything come up for you as a thought you'd like to Deeply program in there Uh mine right now is you are safe here.

Oh um I think in the aftermath of my mom's death I first lived in numbness for about six months and then for the entire rest of the time it was like Full frontal assault constantly.

Yeah,

And so noises sensations Schedules other people's energies having to answer emails like even like teeny tiny stuff assault on my whole personhood And even right now as i've been talking to you i've been actively unclenching my whole core Is like it is safe to be here.

Yeah,

Because I always feel like I need to Launch myself into the next thing where I might need to plan an escape or where's the door in the restaurant?

You know to get out And uh,

And yeah and kind of I am the frog in the hot pan of like what happens if we just sit here And even if we don't want to be here there was something to do here besides leave Yeah,

Um,

What if you have more of a purpose here than to just try and get out of it?

Yeah And so to sit and stay a while is a is an invitation i'm offering myself like look just stay in a while That's beautiful and so there's very much a yeah a welcoming energy beautiful offering too Oh my goodness,

This has been so fun.

Yay,

So fun